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Show Notes

KDevelopers, LLC
Barna Kasa

Real Sstate Investment, Design and Consulting

Fire Age Design
Wyatt Reed

Affordable, Durable, Modular Homes


Sage: [00:00:00] Welcome back to It's Not a Tiny House podcast where your host, Wyatt Reed and Barna Kasa talk about all things housing while working on creating a unique and affordable housing solution in rural Colorado. They cover everything you need to know, from city code to financing by interviewing experts and sharing their personal experience so you can have the knowledge to overcome the problems nobody else is talking about. And now onto the podcast.

Wyatt: [00:00:27] I figured it out, I was driving the other day

Barna: [00:00:29] Are we recording this?

Wyatt: [00:00:29] I was driving the other day

Barna: [00:00:29] Why?

Wyatt: [00:00:32] Yeah, I was driving and I was like, I actually texted myself the title of the book that I'm going to write, because you've got yours right?

Barna: [00:00:40] I've got two.

Wyatt: [00:00:41] You've got two that. You're writing or going to write. Or however.

Barna: [00:00:44] Mostly written,

Wyatt: [00:00:45] Mostly written. Yeah, you're doing better than me.

Barna: [00:00:47] I have 300 pages, man, don't knock it.

Wyatt: [00:00:49] I've just decided on the title. So now I know what I'm actually writing about because I'll just go off on tangents all over the place I'm calling.

Barna: [00:00:57] You?

Wyatt: [00:00:57] Yeah, right? I know I will title my book Debt Slave, and it's going to be talking about how all of these systems are set up in place by the rich, which is fine. Again, this is capitalism, right? It's fine-ish. You've created a generation of younger people that are in debt to the point of they have to work and they don't have the financial education to figure out how to stop the loop. You and I have talked about this for how many years now, right? You teaching me what some of the problems are with debt, what's good debt? What's bad debt? There is no such thing as good that by the way, if you can have no debt, that's the best. So do that.

Barna: [00:01:36] Yeah, that's what I was doing this morning. Yeah, I wrote a twenty some thousand dollar check, pay off the last loan.

Wyatt: [00:01:42] See, and I if once that's the ships and the ships in the harbor, when that ship comes in, I get a fucking squash everything, right? Yeah. And we talked about this the other day. The the iceberg flips.

Wyatt: [00:01:54] You can only have positive when you have positive, but Debt Slave is what I want to call it, because I think it's a good way to help explain to people their situation. Many don't have any idea that they just got to continue going to the salt mine because they had to keep up with the Joneses. They needed the bigger house or they needed the suburban or whatever it was. Well, you're three or four hundred grand in debt. Student loans on top of it now you're half a mil deep.

Barna: [00:02:18] But I got, I got, I got a counter argument to the lack of debt.

Wyatt: [00:02:23] OK.

Barna: [00:02:24] Is debt a motivator?

Wyatt: [00:02:27] For most people, no, I don't think so.

Barna: [00:02:30] You don't think so?

Wyatt: [00:02:31] I think it's more.

Barna: [00:02:32] Is the stuff you're buying with debt, the motivator, because I see a lot of people who thrive on debt because it gets them stuff they want and it forces them to go to work. Like, it's not a motivator. Like YAY I'm going to work. But

Wyatt: [00:02:46] Not a carrot. You're talking about a stick.

Barna: [00:02:48] Yes, but it's a stick you created.

Wyatt: [00:02:51] Sure. Yeah. You sharpened it yourself. Yeah. You thought about that.

Barna: [00:02:54] You didn't need to buy that car. You didn't need to buy that house. I mean, at a certain point, a certain financial, I guess, level, you're, you're creating debt because you either like it, thrive on it, like the stuff it can get you or whatever. Like, you don't have to live in debt.

Wyatt: [00:03:11] I guess maybe you just gave me a chapter on a motivating factor.

Barna: [00:03:13] You can live dirt... as long as you're living under the amount of money you make.

Wyatt: [00:03:19] Yeah, you're fine.

Barna: [00:03:20] You're fine.

Wyatt: [00:03:21] You might have just given me one of the chapters of the book because for some, yeah, it is, and for by and large, the people of a society, call it. One out of 10 are supposed to be the group of people that are going to take on the debt that are going to risk it, they're going to build jobs that are going to build business, that are going to do these types of things. That risk level is not for everyone. Most people don't have that kind of capability. They just want to live a regular life, right? They want to work a job. They want to have their family. What is it to point five kids or whatever the fuck you said? You don't think so.

Barna: [00:04:02] No.

Wyatt: [00:04:02] Not everybody can do whatever they want.

Barna: [00:04:04] No, I. Ok, I saw this, I saw this when I was hungry. So if you're this goes back to the culture. If you have a culture of no debt, right culture of no debt, you buy everything with cash and culture of lower standard of living. Because because that's all you're surrounded by, you don't see anything different. That's why I think a lot of socialist countries were cut off. That's why the media is cut off. That's why TV doesn't show opulence or whatever all the rich people. So you don't aspire to that, right? Because as soon as you do,

Wyatt: [00:04:39] We pick the same word at the same time. Jinx.

Barna: [00:04:42] Yeah. You start spending money.

Wyatt: [00:04:47] You haven't made.

Barna: [00:04:48] You haven't made yet that on things you don't need. So where 40 years ago or less than four 30 years ago in Hungary, everybody's kind of at the same level, you might have a car, might most people ride a bike or a moped or a motorcycle? But that's it. Public transportation for everybody. You can get to anywhere in the country with public transportation,

Wyatt: [00:05:13] But you're nibbling around the edges of a larger construct of how our cities are built.

Barna: [00:05:18] No, yes. But but then if you change your culture, if you change your culture to what is in America, then everybody goes, I want that second car. I want that, I want that house. I'm going to now put on Airbnb or I want a bigger house or I want it, whatever. So a two bedroom house for four people is no longer enough. Even a three bedroom house or four bedroom or whatever. So I see that. A lot of places where your wants all outweigh your needs.

Wyatt: [00:05:50] Oh, fuck yeah.

Barna: [00:05:51] And that's what I brought up to us was like if we're doing. It's like, I understand that. People start new businesses, but you don't need any antique store. You do need a grocery store. You need you need a store where you can buy basic clothing. You don't need necessarily necessarily an ice cream shop. Well, you need food, but you don't necessarily need ice cream.

Wyatt: [00:06:15] You need shoes, but you don't need collector shoes. Yeah, yeah. As an example, right? So you are. Yeah, I mean, I'm just Going like.

Barna: [00:06:23] You don't need the nineteen eighties, Nike, whatever.

Wyatt: [00:06:25] Sure. But I mean, by taking away choice, you've taken away. Have you taken away, I guess is a better question than it is an answer. Have you then taken away the opportunity for capitalists to just take your money for what you want, not what you need? Because that's kind of what we've done, right? We go like, Oh, people will fucking want this, so you build what people want because nobody pays a premium for what they need. It's a commodity like, I'm not going to pay more for fucking broccoli than I have to because I had to have it either way.

Barna: [00:06:51] Everybody makes broccoli because everybody's going to buy broccoli because we only have broccoli at the grocery store, right? We don't have, you know, the fancy vegetables. We just have the basic ones.

Wyatt: [00:07:01] I'm going to get some designer broccoli. That's what I'm going to do from now on and go like, Oh, you want to fucking peasant shit? Or do you want this gold leaf? Fucking.

Barna: [00:07:10] What is it like the broccoli-cauliflower hybrid? Whatever that is.

Wyatt: [00:07:14] Broccoliflower. Fucking we put them together.

Barna: [00:07:19] Qw did it's actually pretty good?

Wyatt: [00:07:20] Yeah, but it's kind of an interesting thing because you're, in my opinion, right? Which matters fucking not. But in my opinion, you're right. I think you need certain things everybody needs. Only a few things where want interjects that and there becomes a market space for people to then buy what they want versus what they need, but also a credit situation as an opportunity to go well. But I want it fucking now. I don't have the money now but this guy loaned me the money at twenty five points on the fucking dollar, and I don't care about that, which is you should. That's where we sit now at the crux of this debt slave situation that I'm talking about, where I just go. That opportunity to borrow money for things you didn't need was too easy.

Barna: [00:08:08] Yes,

Wyatt: [00:08:09] Yeah-ish, right,

Barna: [00:08:10] So I think that's a big part of where we are with real estate. Let's go back to that right now is. Is a, the Fed is not doing their job.

Wyatt: [00:08:20] Oh, with their interest rates that they are dripping?

Barna: [00:08:21] Why can I, why can I get like right now, I can get a commercial loan on a piece of land for under six percent? Under six percent, if I was doing residential

Wyatt: [00:08:35] It would be 2.

Barna: [00:08:36] I just saw an ad, TWO, If I was buying a house, two percent,

Wyatt: [00:08:40] Two fucking points.

Barna: [00:08:41] You want to know why a house is 300 grand in Florence? Yeah, is because my payment is interest rates are so low that my my payment is equal to a hundred and fifty thousand dollar house.

Wyatt: [00:08:53] Exactly. So they're going to get it one way or the other. Somebody's getting it right, but I think what happens is instead of being shouldered with a loan that you can refi, you're buying a house at an inflated price so that it's your fucking responsibility. You can't refi that for less because you already signed the docket for three hundred Gs, right? As opposed to taking out a note for six points and then waiting five years and have an equity in that same house and then refine it at four.

Barna: [00:09:18] So. Yeah, I was thinking about this this morning, am I really how how many millionaires were created in Colorado in the last five years? How.

Wyatt: [00:09:31] Do you know this or.

Barna: [00:09:32] No, I'm I'm saying, just in Florence, I know several because you rolled in here with a couple of hundred thousand dollars five years ago?

Wyatt: [00:09:44] Oh, you snapped up...

Barna: [00:09:45] You bought up three or four buildings. Yeah, I'm I'm thinking about one person specifically, right? I can think of three people right now who are cashing out close to a million dollars.

Wyatt: [00:09:57] Yeah. And they bought it at two hundred grand.

Barna: [00:09:59] Or less.

Wyatt: [00:09:59] Or less. Yeah. Granted, there were improvements that some of those folks, at the very least did.

Barna: [00:10:04] Some.

Wyatt: [00:10:04] Some, not all. But yeah, they rode the fuckin wave up. The tide went up. Yeah, and they took their money. Right, whatever, that's how it works.

Barna: [00:10:12] Now, you cash out and move on, yeah,

Wyatt: [00:10:14] And you're going to go to the next or you're going to wait. Or you've got enough money now at this point,

Barna: [00:10:20] I mean, that's what I'm doing.

Wyatt: [00:10:21] Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. But so part of the part of the reason that that we're starting this conversation, it was because we're going to do a rundown. Oh, and everything that we've talked about up until this point, briefly, right? I have the list brought up of all of our podcasts that we've put out. This is kind of an educational series. If you think of it that way, at least that's how we chose to think of it. And this will obviously conclude. At some point you'll decide for yourself. Well, I still have more wants or needs for more information. My encouragement to you, if you're a listener at this point, is to either get a hold of us. You can start paying at that point. Ha ha. Or you should have enough of the points to navigate from here, right? Like that was our point. You should have enough information here. If you if you go through all these topics, you'll connect the dots, you'll fill in the gaps. After that, it's going to be experience. And and so and

Barna: [00:11:20] Even even though we didn't interview every person we owe necessarily needed to. So, you now know some of the people we have to talk to and they'll steer you in the right direction with the additional people you need to talk to.

Wyatt: [00:11:36] So we had talked about this. We were originally going to have a and we will in the future. Still, we're going to release kind of special episodes down the road sometimes, but we were going to have a surveyor for one that that be one that we don't have on, don't haven't had on our show yet. That's going to be one of your missing links, but you can you can circle around and figure that out around civil. You know, that's your that's your point of contact for that or an architect is going to be able to to tee that up. An attorney. They cost a fair enough amount of money. You're going to probably want to get one of those guys involved for real estate, real estate specific attorney. We haven't had one of those on the show. We'll find one. We'll we'll get to him.

Barna: [00:12:19] I'm in talks with one right now. Ok, so that's one of those things you should have. So you have somebody to run questions by. Right now I have questions about water rights, mineral rights. Yeah, and that should go to the attorney. And I also talked to our surveyor and he said that, for example, if you're doing a condo development. You still need the attorney first and then the surveyor comes in because they're going to go based on that legal description that the attorney created.

Wyatt: [00:12:49] So those would be two places that you as the independent study developer or whatever it is that you're trying to become. If you're listening to this podcast, those would be the two trades, if you will, or professions that you're going to need to to sort out for yourself. Other than that, I mean, we've covered civil, we've covered other developers, we've covered real estate, we've covered. Well, who else than we have on this fucking show? Like all kinds of people,

Barna: [00:13:17] Banker.

Wyatt: [00:13:18] We covered banking

Barna: [00:13:19] How to finance your project or property? An architect.

Wyatt: [00:13:23] Architecture a lot.

Barna: [00:13:25] We even had a lobbyist on here. So you know how you can.

Wyatt: [00:13:29] Code consultant.

Barna: [00:13:29] Influence your political landscape. To to get the zoning change that you need.

Wyatt: [00:13:38] And how to find how to find yourself a code consultant or a professional for land use expert, which would be Angela, who we mentioned. We didn't have have them on the show. We've talked to other influencers, if you will, inside the space. Talking about housing and housing is a crisis all across the country, if not the entire world. I'm going through the list, obviously, like I said, civil, real estate, other developers to and finding tax breaks, economic development funds, those types of things. That was another great little subsect inside of our little process. A couple of different developers, really. And of course, we got to the benefit of having our project shared by the governor of the state that we live in. And that brought a lot of interesting comments. Almost none of which had anything to do with anybody who read what we'd created.

Barna: [00:14:38] Or knew anything about, anything.

Wyatt: [00:14:41] So if you're going to do whatever you're going to do, do it.

Barna: [00:14:44] Like, insulation.

Wyatt: [00:14:45] Yeah. Well, I think for me on the on, that was as a confidence builder to anybody who's like, Well, but so and so is not going to like it. You can't you can't change the landscape of anything and only make friends. It just doesn't fucking work that way, so just make sure that if you're going to do it, that you're doing it legit and that you have conviction to make sure that when the haters come out which they will, you can kind of just play Whack-A-Mole for a while because that's what happens.

Barna: [00:15:11] So, what I learned is that really the way we did it, you probably shouldn't do it that way. You shouldn't start building. You shouldn't just start going. You will make more enemies than if you have you contact all the professionals. They tell you exactly what you need to do in what order, and you get all your ducks in a row. You get all your drawings. You're pretty renderings. Because if you just show up, you go, I'm going to build stuff out of containers and be like, wait, what? They are going to picture the worst thing possible. If you pay an architect to get you some renderings, you come up with a game plan. Then there were more likely to help you create that vision or make that vision.

Wyatt: [00:15:58] Now that's true. That's that's really true. It all depends on what effect you are trying for as well, if you just want to, if you just want to fucking wake things up a little bit. Do what we did. If you want to poke the bear and are pretty sure.

Barna: [00:16:13] Or if you don't have any money. Do what we did.

Wyatt: [00:16:15] Yeah, and if you don't have any fucking money, then yeah, then you can do it that way, right? But otherwise it's like we we put this series together so people go, well, I could save myself some headache and some public argument really, and possibly attempts at people shaming you into whatever they may shame you into. Because that's just how people kind of react is no. Yeah. You know, you can play at the safe way or you can go, fuck you, I'm doing what these guys did. And again, we didn't hurt anything. We got through it. We're still getting through it. It really is like, are you trying to elicit a response? And like I said to Barna the other day, we were in another meeting and I we were talking about something quietly. There was a different meeting going on, and I looked at it and I said, history never remembers the timid. They just fucking don't. And there's an old quote from one of a former president's wife. And I can't remember who it was. Someone will know this. But it was "History rarely remembers a well-behaved woman". Yeah and it's like, fucking it, right, man. Like every once in a while, it's OK for you to stand up and be like, I'm fucking doing this. I think that's OK. Again, you know, you can't hurt people and you can't hurt yourself, really. But it's just

Barna: [00:17:26] Well, now we're going off on a tangent because I kind of want to go over what happened in that meeting.

Wyatt: [00:17:31] You can.

Barna: [00:17:32] Did you did you ever send an email to them?

Wyatt: [00:17:34] I did.

Barna: [00:17:35] You did.

Wyatt: [00:17:35] I did.

Barna: [00:17:35] I haven't gotten around to it.

Wyatt: [00:17:37] See look at that.

Barna: [00:17:37] Look, I was sitting in hot springs and

Wyatt: [00:17:39] Yeah, you were chilling. At the time of this recording, it's actually it's my birthday and Barna's was yesterday. And so we're kind of slacking. We're chilling a little bit. We're taking a little slower approach to things, but I'm going through the list of the podcasts that we've done. You know, and we started our conversations. We didn't have any guests on until we hit number.

Barna: [00:18:01] 10, 10-ish?

Wyatt: [00:18:04] Eight, Toscano was was first. I don't see any pictures of anybody else, either. That's when we started with infographic, is that an infographic? What's the little T-Rex and stuff? What are those called

Barna: [00:18:16] Thumbnail

Wyatt: [00:18:17] Thumbnails? Why don't we just call them pictures in a picture?

Sage: [00:18:22] PIP?

Wyatt: [00:18:22] Whatever thumbnails. So we started with learning a little bit about housing from more of a geographically, you know, free range, if you will workforce. You know, you can kind of work fucking anywhere he wants to. Yeah, there's a lot of that tech, folks, and there's a whole generation of people that are interested in smaller dwelling units and housing. And so that's kind of what I think where we started, right? Why are there minimum square footage requirements? Why are, why is housing so expensive?

Barna: [00:18:58] I kind of want to like narrowed down some of the lessons we learned in this.

Wyatt: [00:19:02] Then you should.

Barna: [00:19:03] So one of them is we spent a lot of time kind of like ranting at City Council and planning commission, like we need housing, we need smaller square footage and they're like, why are you talking? Because that's not how it works. You bring a project. You don't bring a general idea. The way you change things is you bring a project. We know, somebody that's doing a development and they needed, the only way it would financially make sense is if the a one bedroom needed to have the square footage lowered. And that was it. So there was a standard for a one bedroom unit is whatever, three hundred and eighty square feet. I forget what the exact number was. He said, I can do three hundred and fifty square feet. Whatever. It was a minor change. And because he had a project and he had a rendering and he had a plan, he put that towards the city and said, hey, this is what I need to make this project happen. And then it happened. Then he needed a re-zone. And then we made that happen. I was at City Council and Planning Commission kind of pushing that one through. And it was bring your project. Before that we were there for six months going. We need to rezone all of, whatever, the industrial stuff that's in town, that's wasted space. Let's rezone it. Nobody's going to just go and rezoning that whole neighborhood unless you own the land and you go for that and you push that project forward. So like, there's no reason to go and start yelling, just come up with a project. Figure out what you need for that. Then you go to City Hall and you start pushing all the little, the each step you need to make that project happen.

Wyatt: [00:20:50] Yeah, that's that's a good point. Right. So figure out what your actual project's going to be. Right?

Barna: [00:20:56] Yeah, we didn't do that till end of year one.

Wyatt: [00:20:58] We didn't really know what we our problem was that we didn't know we wanted to do a certain thing. We didn't know how, we started with one idea or concept. We got told, no, you got keep in mind, we did have. A project, We got told no. Then we're just too damn stubborn to accept that too.

Barna: [00:21:22] Yeah. We brought up rezoning and they said no, and they, we brought them, but we never filed all the paperwork. We didn't get the rezoning right.

Wyatt: [00:21:33] No, we just took them at their word.

Barna: [00:21:34] Than we wanted the watchman's quarters and we're told no, and then we just went around the zoning.

Wyatt: [00:21:40] Yeah, that one was official. You know, we had done paperwork and had a public notice for that and all that kind of stuff and whatever. So, OK, lesson is pick your fucking project. Move forward with that. Yeah, what else you got? You got notes.

Barna: [00:21:54] Oh, that was it.

Wyatt: [00:21:55] Perfect.

Barna: [00:21:56] I got nothing.

Wyatt: [00:21:57] So pick your project. Now you have your process. That's what this that's what this little list of things is to do. So you can play, you can play general contractor, if you will, at that point or essentially that's what you learn how to do here.

Barna: [00:22:11] You know who to call.

Wyatt: [00:22:12] Yeah, you know who to call. You know how to get a hold of people. You know how to approach them. Hopefully, you know how to save yourself some money so that you're not just sending people, you know, on a on a wild ass goose chase on what they want to build for you. You should be able to kind of rein them in and figure out what you're trying to do your math based on is another big one, right? So you're going like, how many dollars can I spend on this? In order for it to be worth what? That's the basic math that we were kind of, yeah, talking about a lot in here and we were talking about with real estate guys as well, like. You can't put a million dollars into something and only get one hundred thousand dollars in value out of it unless you want to lose nine hundred grand. That's up to you, right? So understanding like how much a project's going to cost has a lot to do with understanding all of the variables that go into it. You miss a variable. You miss a cost. Your numbers aren't right and your math is butchered and you're going to be upside down. So that's that's a little bit more relevant to current situation that we're facing for a future project where it's like, yeah, can't really just miss one of these line items because, you know, you know, you're talking sums of money that can't just be found somewhere else. This isn't couch cushion shit. This is a little bigger, right?

Barna: [00:23:31] Actual money. Folding money.

Wyatt: [00:23:33] Yeah, this is this. Now we're talking folding money no longer chump change, right? I think for me, if we're going to talk about, you know, what we've created for people to listen to, those that have listened and those that will in the future. I think it's a great opportunity for me to say thank you for letting the actual words that we've put together instead of just yelling at the wall, be recorded, be listened to, be a body of work that adds some credibility to the future and it will help other people that are a little under experienced. Then we, well, I mean, when you're starting out right, like this is some important stuff that I think you're going to benefit from.

Barna: [00:24:17] So one of my one of my things is I really like to learn from my own mistakes. So I don't repeat those mistakes. What I prefer to do is learn from other people's mistakes. So we already made all the mistakes. And we already told you about them. So just learn from this.

Wyatt: [00:24:35] It'll save you a lot.

Barna: [00:24:36] And go from there.

Wyatt: [00:24:37] Yeah, yeah. And like it's been, it's been really fun. We've learned a fucking ton of stuff. Yeah, I know that for me and Barna both, we've sat at the table with somebody in the middle of us and we've both been like, Oh shit, I didn't know that. Or he's he's asked questions of stuff where I got, I got the benefit of being at the table. So does everybody here some of you guys might know more of the questions and answers that Barna brings to the table to our guests than I do, but I get to learn that and then I get to ask them questions and he gets to learn that like we we didn't bring the same skills into this, but we're leaving with a more rounded skill set moving forward and that's been like fun. Like, we just basically put microphones in front of people and they told us all kinds of cool stuff.

Barna: [00:25:21] But I don't know if it's it's liberating or more depressing because like right now, I'm so I'm looking at some land, right? So I go, OK, looking at some land, well, here's what I have to look up, right? I look up water rights. I have to look up wells, I have to look up well depths so I know what the cost is for drilling a well. Now we're talking septic systems. Can we do a vault? Can we do septic? Is our water around now we're going to OK? Is it in a flood plain? And these are all things I didn't know a year ago.

Wyatt: [00:25:52] City road, state road, what kind of access?

Barna: [00:25:54] Access off of a county road. You have to file a permit for that. But then now you can't. Now you have to do culverts if if there's water running that way.

Wyatt: [00:26:02] Approaches.

Barna: [00:26:03] So all this stuff just by for looking at one piece of land and I have to go to the county, look at the deed, see if the whatever rights actually do transfer and see what it includes.

Wyatt: [00:26:16] Well, so

Barna: [00:26:17] This is this is all new.

Wyatt: [00:26:19] This is people's profession, right? It's not so simple as finding a piece of ground that's twelve thousand dollars buying it and going, I can do whatever I want to on it. No, you really can't.

Barna: [00:26:30] No you can't And it's buyer beware, that's capitalism. Was it, caveat emptor, buyer beware.

Wyatt: [00:26:37] Sounds like so got the Latin thing pretty good there.

Barna: [00:26:38] You buy, you buy a piece of land. If it's in a floodway, that's your problem. Yeah, if the city paved over half your property, that's your problem. Like, it's it nobody's doing this for you. Title company will insure against a couple of things, but definitely not everything.

Wyatt: [00:26:57] Right. So that's the thing about it, right? Like, make sure I think a lot of people will just be. Hopefully, if they listen to this, they're grateful for like, OK, now I know that I'm definitely not. These waters are deep and it's relatively full of fucking predators on top of it, right, like there just is deep water. And there are a lot of things that you have to be able to navigate and think about and figure out and work with. And so hopefully that doesn't scare everybody off. For some, it will right. For some to go, I don't want to deal with that shit. For the others, it's motivating. Like, you know, like you said, now I've got to look through all this stuff. I feel empowered, right? Because I go, as of today, the ripe old age of thirty five, how much shit just got downloaded into my brain in the last couple of years. I mean, there's a lot of building stuff that I already knew how to do or have been figuring out in real time in between all this shit. Add all that to it, you're now talking about a skill set or an approach or an understanding of projects that is that of a fifty five year old that's been doing it for 20 more years than I've been doing it right. That's bringing the wood, man, that's that's a huge chunk of information, and like I said, we for the most part, we've it into the microphones and people have just fucking talk to us about it.

Barna: [00:28:25] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:28:25] How awesome are they our guests? Could we thank them enough? I don't think so. Like, they came in here. We might have fed them some burritos and coffee. I mean, you know,

Barna: [00:28:35] Some donuts,

Wyatt: [00:28:36] Some donuts. Yeah.

Barna: [00:28:37] Definitely did donuts.

Wyatt: [00:28:38] We've sugared them up. But they just.

Barna: [00:28:41] Tons of good information.

Wyatt: [00:28:41] They just wanted to, they want to help every single person that came in here. They had a conversation with us, wants the audience of people out there to know a little bit about what they do for work. And they gave us information that can help you. Yeah, it's not as fucking easy as it looks, I'll put it that way. Right? Well, it's just building houses or it's just putting sewer in the ground. Oh, no the fuck's.

Barna: [00:29:05] So complicated.

Wyatt: [00:29:06] It's it's ridiculous how complicated. And so don't oversimplify. We might have started with an oversimplification on our end, and now we've learned like, let's not on, a larger scale, that would have swallowed us whole. Right? Yeah, it would have swallowed us whole. And we know that.

Barna: [00:29:25] And this all applies to not just if, if you want to be a developer, it applies, but you need to do some further education and definitely work with professionals. But this all applies, so you need to read all the resources we have on the website. There's need to know where to find your local code, your local zoning. Who we have to contact at City Hall or the county. Because just on on the residential level. Your neighbor's fence could be on your property, right? Your fence could be on your neighbor's property. You don't know until you get that survey.

Wyatt: [00:30:02] Actual property boundaries, or set back. Before you start anything.

Barna: [00:30:06] Yeah, because stuff's divided, re divided. Who knows when whoever put that fence there. And I just had it with my neighbor came over and I have access to the ditch and you're not supposed to pump water off the ditch itself you need a way to get the water off the ditch. Then you it goes into like a lateral or or something on your property that now you can pump water out of that. He doesn't have access to that ditch. So he came up to me and asked, Well, can I just split it off yours? No, you can't. That means I would need to have a permanent easement right for you to come on my property and because that's your property, that's going to be on my property. So it's a permanent easement. Then we need to have some kind of agreement of who's going to maintain that because if that pipe breaks, even though it's only three feet onto my property. And these things exist, and this is an actual problem, and you need to know this, otherwise you're like, Sure, put that pipe there. And then what happens? Pipe breaks, now, the neighbors suing you because you cut off their access to the ditch water or they're just going to dig up your yard and leave it that way? Or maybe the piping isn't done right now. They get all your water. So there's a million issues, and this helps you learn some of that.

Wyatt: [00:31:26] Yeah, really just be slow to say yes, I think, you know, I had another situation someone called me and said, so-and-so wants to vacate an alleyway. We're going to get an extra 10 feet of property, but they're going to, but they're going to. We no longer have alley access to our property. If we sign this paperwork, I said, why in the fucking planet would you ever sign that? Well, we get 10 more feet. I said they get 10 more feet on everybody in the alley and you lose access. To the back of your lot forever, no easement was going to be on it, I was like, Ha ha. They get just as much, if not more than you do because they're vacating an alleyway for this new driveway. Tell them to put the fucking driveway on their property like a big boy. And that's how this works. They're not giving you any land. They're taking more than they're giving. But it's pretty easy because, like your casual about it you're like, Oh, that'd be a good neighbor thing to do.

Barna: [00:32:25] Well, wait a minute.

Wyatt: [00:32:26] But your property value drop, so they have to figure out a way to make sure that you're made whole right? It's just simple stuff like that where it's like just slow down for a second. Everybody wants to be friends. I get that. But you got to protect yourself out here because I mean, you take your property and you cut off the back access to it when you go to sell that property. The next buyer goes, Well, I can't even get into the backyard. That's a huge buyer decision.

Barna: [00:32:55] Yeah, you can see that on. So title insurance policy, when you go to buy a property and they'll say right there, it's like, here's this easement for this person. Like, why do I have an easement for these people while they have to get to their property? Ok, well, my next question is who's maintaining that road now?

Wyatt: [00:33:14] Is that my driveway and they use it

Barna: [00:33:15] Now, and I can I still use it? Or is it just theirs now? So how much of my property value is gone because I gave up an acre in roads.

Wyatt: [00:33:26] Its though. It's just one of those things where, yeah, you've got to get the other professionals involved and if for no other reason, that's what this serves as like to maybe show you like, you could be out of depth. Get the right people involved. And that's just that's how it works, and that's why they make their money. You pay the professionals, you know. I've said that for a long time. Like, I don't do accounting. Why would I pretend that I can do math. OK. Math, not that hard. Accounting is different. But it is math. So, yeah, OK, you can talk to me in math, but I don't speak accounting.

Barna: [00:33:59] It's a different guy.

Wyatt: [00:34:00] Look, just like we can use English, but you don't speak real estate attorney. Unless you're a real estate attorney, you don't speak it, so you pay them their money. They're the professionals, and that's how that works. That's all I got, man, I just like I said, I wanted to thank our guests, I wanted to thank our listeners. We're going to roll out every once in a while when we talk, when we find somebody cool. We'll talk to them. Right now, we're a little too busy.

Barna: [00:34:26] Yeah, very busy

Wyatt: [00:34:28] To continue right now. And this is.

Barna: [00:34:31] Every two weeks is the problem.

Wyatt: [00:34:33] We're a little too consistent right now, and it's it's just kind of what we need to do is just chill out a little bit. And like I said, if you need something from us,

Barna: [00:34:42] Let us know.

Wyatt: [00:34:43] Yeah, you let us know you reach out. Well, we're for hire. At the end of the day, I'm going to shamelessly plug us for once and go. This podcast is sponsored by KDevelopers and Fire Age Design. I'll have to pay for this one just because now I said that. But but this is what we do. We build. We're creative problem solvers and we can we can be rented. We can't be bought, but we can be rented. So that's all I have. Unless you want to keep going and we can cut this one and we can keep talking, I don't care. But at some point we're just going to end up talking forever again.

Barna: [00:35:21] About debt.

Wyatt: [00:35:23] Debt Slave, look out on on bookshelves in the next 30 years.

Barna: [00:35:28] On coming soon, maybe, possibly.

Wyatt: [00:35:31] In the next 30 years. At some point when I take vacation. I'll write it.

Barna: [00:35:35] See, maybe if you read my book called Workation, you would know how to.

Wyatt: [00:35:38] You didn't give it to me. It hasn't released. With that.

Barna: [00:35:43] Preview copy. Order now.

Wyatt: [00:35:46] Hit the, kill it, Sage.

Barna: [00:35:48] We're done.

Wyatt: [00:35:49] We're done, that's it.

Sage: [00:35:50] Thank you for listening to another episode of our podcast, go to our website for show notes and how to contact us. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter @notatinyhouse and on Instagram @noatinyhousepodcast. If you listen this far, you probably enjoyed the podcast found the content valuable. Go ahead and share it with your friends and on social media. Please rate or review our podcast and follow us to get notified about our next episode and we'll talk to you next time on It's Not a Tiny House.