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Show Notes


Sage: [00:00:00] Welcome back to It's Not a Tiny House Podcast where your hosts, Wyatt Reed and Barna Kasa talk about all things housing while working on creating a unique and affordable housing solution in rural Colorado. They cover everything you need to know from city code to financing by interviewing experts and sharing their personal experience so you can have the knowledge to overcome the problems nobody else is talking about. And now, onto the podcast.

Wyatt: [00:00:26] Somebody made a comment about the toxicity of the paint used on shipping containers. If you're listening to this, do us all a favor. Go into the paint section on any fucking store and read and find me a label that says you can ingest this safely. They are all harmful if swallowed paint is paint. Do we use industrial grade paint for this particular project? Yeah, it's extremely durable. We want to fucking paint it again. This is implement paint. It's no different than what they use on tractors and heavy equipment. It's enamel based. It's it is pretty harsh. We wear respirators. We're outside. Again, tell me what paint is not toxic. Don't drink the paint.

Sage: [00:01:10] Don't grind it off.

Barna: [00:01:11] Hey, we are rolling into the next one pretty soon so.

Wyatt: [00:01:14] I know, but I'm like.

Barna: [00:01:15] We an get rolling right now.

Wyatt: [00:01:18] Don't eat the fucking shipping container, how's that?

Barna: [00:01:19] Don't eat the shipping container. Don't eat your house. Don't eat your vinyl siding. Don't eat your fucking roofing shingles. Don't snort your insulation, whatever kind you got.

Wyatt: [00:01:28] Yeah. Don't smoke that.

Barna: [00:01:29] You think fiberglass is good for you. Are you fucking kidding me. Go in your attic. Roll around in it a little bit. Yeah. See what it feels like. See how good that is for you. Yeah. Maybe don't and be smart about your fucking life.

Wyatt: [00:01:42] You know what it says when you have sander. It says sawdust is known to be cancer causing in the state of California.

Barna: [00:01:49] Everything is though. Everything causes cancer in California.

Wyatt: [00:01:52] Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to work on you people to change your mind. What I am going to do is laugh with Barna and Sage at you for your pointed comments that make no fucking sense. And this is the teeth coming out episode. So this should be fun. And this is this is aimed to be fun. Yeah. I'm not attacking anybody personally. We're looking at funny comment.

Barna: [00:02:14] Wait, wait. So we're not we're not doing the names. It's all right.

Wyatt: [00:02:18] This is satire.

Barna: [00:02:19] Yeah right. But just in case you want the names, Governor Jared Polis.

Wyatt: [00:02:25] Jared Polis shared an article that was done on The Industrial Hotel.

Sage: [00:02:28] So, the history behind this. We had the article done. Jared Polis somehow found it.

Wyatt: [00:02:31] He had nothing to do with that.

Wyatt: [00:02:33] Yeah. And again, we've never spoken with him. Nobody on our team got a hold of anybody on their team. They're just randomly saw it.

Barna: [00:02:39] Think he just reads maybe the Colorado Sun or somebody he knows might have shown him the article.

Wyatt: [00:02:44] There were 50 shares by the time he saw it. That's, guys we're in a fucking small town and a four thousand people at the high end in southern Colorado. He's in a, I don't know where he is geographically, obviously, but likely he's in Denver. Dealing with the same issue of where people are going to fucking live affordably. And he said one thing. Good idea. And certain people decided that they were going to attack that. Why don't you why don't you read me a good one?

Barna: [00:03:11] Oh, can I just start with the first one that's, that's, not Brad, it's not Brad or Rick. All right. We're going to skip those guys because we know them. So "Joke live in a box and get your government cheese handout. No."

Wyatt: [00:03:28] Oh, wow.

Barna: [00:03:29] That's a new one. I didn't see that. That's it says three days, but I have not seen that one for some reason.

Wyatt: [00:03:35] That's a good one. So what part of that person thinks that this is a government sponsored project? I don't know. We've never taken a dollar, let alone a cent from any government entity or no grants,

Barna: [00:03:46] No discounts

Wyatt: [00:03:47] No discounts, no damn sure, no discounts.

Barna: [00:03:49] No, no discounts on anything. We don't get a discounted water tap. That's for sure.

Wyatt: [00:03:55] So and as far as the government cheese comments concerned, sir or gal, or whatever you'd like to be referred to.

Barna: [00:04:02] We are not going to disclose that.

Wyatt: [00:04:04] That's one of the most ridiculous statements that I've ever actually heard. So we're going to go ahead and let that one live on. And you, you can live with the with that. I don't need to address that. That's fucking ridiculous to me.

Barna: [00:04:18] And just the box comment in America, everyone lives in a fucking box. I don't know. Go to Europe, man. Look around. Architecture here is shit for the most part.

Wyatt: [00:04:33] Comparatively, yeah

Barna: [00:04:34] Every house that's in your cookie cutter, what you think is not a box neighborhood. It's designed from the front and it highlights your garage. You have one wall that is designed.

Sage: [00:04:48] You don't even have a porch anymore.

Barna: [00:04:49] After that, what is it, boxes? It's a flat wall with random windows. Like that's your front, back, and sides.

Wyatt: [00:04:57] Here's the other thing. Sure, yeah. It's a box. I can stack eight and nine of these things high on on top of your house we can stack exactly zero. So durability, efficient standpoint.

Barna: [00:05:08] Ours support one hundred fifty thousand pounds, ballpark each. Other containers.

Wyatt: [00:05:13] Yeah. Even more than that. Four hundred thousand.

Barna: [00:05:15] Yours, yours supports maybe your roofers. Don't have a tree fall on yours. I think we'll be fine if a tree falls on ours.

Wyatt: [00:05:22] Actually I'm not worried about it. Yeah. I wouldn't be worried about it for a second. So again, moving on, he gets no more attention.

Barna: [00:05:30] "I usually support your ideas, but quite honestly there's nothing great on a shipping container for a living area. Just imagine yourself living in one and see" if I mean, there's words missing here. "See if you continue if it continues to be a great idea."

Wyatt: [00:05:48] Absolutely, come on down.

Sage: [00:05:49] From the age of eight I have wanted to live in a container house.

Wyatt: [00:05:55] Here's the thing. How about you drive down here, jump inside of one of ours and then tell us if it's livable or not livable. Both of them, the commenter and or Jared Polis, of course,

Barna: [00:06:07] Come on down. We offer tours, go to our website, sign up, give us a little background and maybe tell us your concerns and then watch our video. You know, just look at a couple of things. We'll be glad to give you a tour.

Wyatt: [00:06:19] I can be, I can be civil about that one, because it's it's just never being inside of one that's finished, probably. And if they have and they don't like them, how's this? They're not for everyone. They never were designed to be. They are for some people.

Barna: [00:06:31] Yeah. Yeah. So now the the leading comment or the most often uttered comment, but you know, this one's special.

Sage: [00:06:39] Yeah. There's a whole thread under that one we just mentioned.

Barna: [00:06:40] This is this is special. Yeah. I don't know. Thirteen replies or something to this one. So must like "wow" hold on, gets better. "Wow. Do you clowns have any idea how hot these things get in the summer and how cold in the winter." So one clown to another, how do you feel about that?

Wyatt: [00:07:01] How do you feel about insulation? I guess I'll put it that way.

Sage: [00:07:04] What's insulation?

Wyatt: [00:07:05] Yeah, well, so insulation is what everybody has to have in order to obtain a certificate of occupancy, which we've obviously done. Right.

Sage: [00:07:13] It's like someone has thought of this before.

Wyatt: [00:07:15] Yeah.

Barna: [00:07:15] It's always like, yeah, anything that isn't insulated is either hot when it's hot outside and then cold when it's cold outside.

Sage: [00:07:25] That's weird.

Barna: [00:07:26] I know.

Wyatt: [00:07:27] This is a bigger conversation about conductors and instigators, if you'd like to know. Right. And to to the clown. Yeah. A standard shipping container would be hot in the summer and would be cold obviously in the winter. These are insulated.

Barna: [00:07:43] So is your house, so is a cabin when they are not, if it's not insulated and there's no climate control. So those were invented. How many years ago. I don't know.

Wyatt: [00:07:53] I don't know either. A long time ago.

Barna: [00:07:55] Fire when those firemen did. Because I think it goes back to that for like heating a space that wasn't hot when you wanted it to be hot. OK.

Wyatt: [00:08:04] The cloud gets no more. I'm done with it. I mean I'll circle back to that again because it's purely the most ridiculous that I've come across yet. And somebody thinking that they are somehow further down the rabbit hole than somebody who's building these is easily one of the funniest things I could have actually thought about. So thank you for your comment.

Barna: [00:08:25] I love it. It's great. So this is too political. We're skip that one. So, yeah. This is great. "Yet another eyesore".

Wyatt: [00:08:34] Yeah. Oh and eyesore, because I'm assuming. Well and in truth and in fairness to that, we've also said this before. Right. You can have durability, you can have efficiency and you can have beauty.

Sage: [00:08:50] Pick two.

Sage: [00:08:51] Also, I would just like to say that every new development in any major city is in the style of shipping containers.

Wyatt: [00:09:00] Very modern.

Sage: [00:09:00] Yeah, very modern boxy. It has the corrugated metal on the outside and it's got the wood.

Wyatt: [00:09:05] That's somebody that doesn't like the aesthetic of shipping containers. Perfect. Go live, go live in the suburbs.

Barna: [00:09:11] Yeah, this is so let's get back. This is give me another comment I'll try to find if I don't find it, I'll just paraphrase,

Wyatt: [00:09:18] But not for everybody. Thank you. I'm too you busy anyway.

Barna: [00:09:21] But that's that's the other thing. This is this not for anybody, this not for everybody.

Sage: [00:09:25] There's a great Ted talk on that subject. There's this builder and he talks about the idea of patterns and construction. He uses all reclaimed and recycled materials for everything, every single thing in his house. He's got a house made. The roofing material is license plates. And because he repeats them in a pattern, it looks consistent and like you develop these patterns. Yeah. And like his main thing is like, if you don't like it, you shouldn't live in one. Yeah, like, that's a terrible idea. Why would you do that.

Wyatt: [00:09:56] It doesn't suit you. Yeah. Don't try and make it suits you. So good. Walk away and you won't be offered a tour. Thank you for your opinion.

Sage: [00:10:04] #Freedom

Barna: [00:10:04] Oh come on. You stole my line.

Wyatt: [00:10:06] #fredom, freedom to chose.

Barna: [00:10:09] No, I think it's housing choice. Housing choice. Like school choice. We're going with housing choice. #housingchoice. "Shipping containers are full of lead". If they're shipping lead, then yes, they are.

Wyatt: [00:10:25] So there's a construction practice known as encapsulation. It's what is done with asbestos is the easiest, most common understood area, right. Certain things you go right over the top. I've been doing residential remodel construction for a number of years. If I didn't know about encapsulation, which again is like taking, that's why we use spray. Problem solved. Thank you for your concern. Also, clearly somebody who's not built or remodeled things.

Barna: [00:10:55] Yeah, because any house built around the fifties is full of what?

Wyatt: [00:10:59] Asbestos.

Barna: [00:11:00] How much of it?

Wyatt: [00:11:01] All of it.

Barna: [00:11:02] All of it.

Wyatt: [00:11:03] The doorknob.

Wyatt: [00:11:04] Oh they use asbestos all around pipes.

Barna: [00:11:06] Windows, window caulking or whatever was.

Wyatt: [00:11:09] So it was an insulator and an adhesive. So your flooring is all put down with asbestos. A lot of times they'll find it. In fact, can countertops you don't want to disrupt, you know, even wallpaper and stuff like that. Sometimes because of that, I went into one house one time. It's about a hundred and twenty year old house, seven layers of linoleum. They just kept going over top. So like, yeah. Anyway, so again, that's a fair enough question because if you're not in the trades, you might not understand encapsulation, but that's that's what, that's how that's been navigated. Thank you. So far what I've learned from, from those posts and I don't want us to only do negative ones. There was one guy on there that said he's like, you know, "this is probably one of the strongest houses that you could build". And he's 100 percent right, especially when you add the internal framing that we add to them all the structural spray foam that's added to it. I say that like foam you don't get credit for structure from, but it does add it when it's spray foam, it does add rigidity to the structure. And that's just kind of how you do metal buildings, you just can't go too thin.

Barna: [00:12:15] Oh, we got another good one here. It's not the one I was looking for, but I'm so dumb I already forgot what I was looking for. So, uh, yeah. "Except the absence of basic amenities and any shred of human decency."

Wyatt: [00:12:30] Oh wow, fantastic.

Barna: [00:12:31] That's a statement. It's not a question. It's seems like...

Wyatt: [00:12:35] Well you're wrong on all levels because there are real life bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchenettes

Barna: [00:12:42] And commercial toilets, not just your residential cheap little ninety dollar toilets either. Right?

Wyatt: [00:12:49] We have to have elongated bowls and da da da da

Barna: [00:12:53] We have to meet a higher standard. Then your house, once again.

Wyatt: [00:12:57] Thank you for your interesting comments. Again, most people inside of this, you know, they're commenting based on a preconceived notion or whatever, and it's like I am losing patience.

Barna: [00:13:13] All right, come on.

Sage: [00:13:14] We've got a good one here.

Barna: [00:13:15] You got a good one or like a positive one or so we just making fun of the negative ones.

Sage: [00:13:18] It turns positive.

Barna: [00:13:20] Ok, good. OK, go.

Sage: [00:13:21] "Please don't. The whole shipping container thing has gotten way out of hand" and then someone says, "what's the harm though?" And the same person says, "after all is said and done, it's not cost efficient. Think about how are you going to insulate it? Why are these things just not efficient?" And then we've got a whole thread of people saying "you obviously have not looked into this YouTube it" and then someone else says, "except they are insulated, wired and plumbed. Amazing how people smarter than you have figured that."

Wyatt: [00:13:46] Thank you to that person who is who is correct at the very end of that.

Barna: [00:13:50] Well, I want to see Wyatt's take on this one. "Um no, horrible idea. We're not a third world country."

Wyatt: [00:13:57] We're going to be one soon unless we come up with fucking real life solutions and stop enslaving everybody in fucking debt like we've been doing.

Barna: [00:14:04] So my questions would be by which metric? So number of people in prison. Right. Amount of money spent on military. I mean, and what's the other number one I think. Number one.

Wyatt: [00:14:21] So I think the thing for me is, is bankruptcy from health care.

Barna: [00:14:26] Medical debt.

Wyatt: [00:14:27] Yep. Health care, bankruptcy, cost of education, those things. If you want to talk about financial enslavement, which would be something akin to a third world country. Sure. Under the cloak of freedom, those are my thoughts on that one. You know what I mean? And to that person, duly noted. You know, also, if you would like to rent your entire existence and never gain equity and ownership in something to pass to the next generation..

Sage: [00:14:58] But, for some people, that's what they want to do.

Wyatt: [00:15:00] But that's perfectly

Sage: [00:15:01] Perfectly fine. Really fine. But for a lot of people, you want to have the situation where you have somewhere that you own and can take pride in.

Wyatt: [00:15:09] Own and then add onto and continue to build from.

Sage: [00:15:13] I don't I don't know who this person is, but I kept on reading this thread and they are incredible. They keep on going back and talking about this. "I don't see that they're trending so much as solving an economical environmental problem. The average home price in Denver is seven thousand. Now you can pay seven hundred thousand or you can look at something like this as a starter home. If you can work remotely for a lot less".

Barna: [00:15:35] Is this somebody we know?

Sage: [00:15:35] I don't know. They're saying everything that we've been saying.

Barna: [00:15:39] Sounds familiar.

Sage: [00:15:40] "The people in this market don't have the luxury of looking for things that are aesthetically pleasing. I've seen shacks under the Purina Plan going for 450 to 500K, and that's listing, thats before the bidding was".

Barna: [00:15:52] I've driven by that plant. And I know what they're talking about. It's under the highway.

Sage: [00:15:56] And they said, like, "do you even live here? Do you do you know how much things cost here? Parking spots in central Denver go for one of these shipping containers cost. Maybe you can afford something aesthetically pleasing" using quotation marks, "but most people aren't in that position".

Barna: [00:16:11] Do a search downtown Denver, real estate under fifty thousand, under sixty five thousand dollars. Sorry. You'll have a couple of things pop up. You know what they are? Parking spaces. Or you can have your own individual house. You can live in.

Wyatt: [00:16:28] Right. Parking space for 65 grand.

Barna: [00:16:31] Yeah. You're allowed to park your car.

Wyatt: [00:16:32] Here's how we know we've lost our way. That's how we know. Fucking ridiculous.

Barna: [00:16:38] So says "the free market is not able to deal with our housing problem. That's why the state government needs to step up and do something about it, and we should be able to do better than people living in shipping containers". I cannot tell you how many things are wrong with that sentence, because as a as a proud socialist who just happens to like capitalism on his side, the free market is able to handle this. The reason the free market cannot, is not, handling it now is because the free market isn't fucking free when you have rules and regulations that prevent entrepreneurs from creating unique, different, solutions. Not insanely different. The same solutions that existed 50 years ago. That's all we want to do. The shit you had in 1950. I was listening to a podcast, average home size was four hundred square feet. Number of people on a family, average, five. Plus pets. It's 200. What is it?

Wyatt: [00:17:43] How's this, stop hating your fucking family members and start living with them instead of having massive fucking houses.

Barna: [00:17:48] Or hating your community. I had a conversation with Brad about this. Like fucking cracks me up when you go to the suburbs, right. Suburbs, you have these huge houses with maybe decent sized yards. Do you see do you see a community playground? No. Everybody buys a fucking jungle gym like everybody's got a jungle gym in their backyard.And then everyone puts a pool in their backyard and then everybody puts a backyard barbecue in their backyard.

Sage: [00:18:16] A basketball goal.

Barna: [00:18:16] Everybody's got a basketball whatever in their yard. Right? What happened to..

Wyatt: [00:18:20] Did you say fucking basketball goal?

Barna: [00:18:22] What are you, Canadian?

Wyatt: [00:18:23] Yeah, hold on, everybody stop.

Barna: [00:18:26] I repeated it.

Wyatt: [00:18:27] Yeah, I know, what the fuck is happening?

Barna: [00:18:30] Obviously not a ball sports person. Video games over there. Swimming over here.

Wyatt: [00:18:36] Goal is reserved for a real sport.

Barna: [00:18:39] Hockey.

Wyatt: [00:18:40] Thank you.

Sage: [00:18:40] It's just because you are short.

Wyatt: [00:18:42] Ok, I was just having a fun. I just had to poke to bear.

Barna: [00:18:46] But so like everybody literally withdrawals from the community and creates their own, like a little fiefdom where, where they have everything that they could ever need or their kids could ever need. That way we can avoid people.

Sage: [00:18:59] You see the the rise in depression. You see the the rise in suicides and you see..

Barna: [00:19:04] Don't get me started on that.

Sage: [00:19:05] And, it's, the statistics out there for the the emotional effect that that type of building style has on you living there versus something, like you can. It's called the European, but it's just human. Where you.

Barna: [00:19:19] Sorry, we're breaking away from that. We did that years ago.

Sage: [00:19:22] Yeah, but you have like a central area that people will enjoy a coffee with or they'll enjoy reading a book with or they'll have a gym that they go to. Like, I don't want to own all that stuff in my house. I want my house to be a place that I eat, sleep, use the restroom and shower in.

Barna: [00:19:40] Store saw some of my shit.

Wyatt: [00:19:41] Like that you fuckers. How much Netflix says are you motherfuckers watching?

Barna: [00:19:46] I got a sign that said you're done, with Netflix.

Sage: [00:19:49] Are you still watching?

Wyatt: [00:19:52] Go to the trail, go to the coffee shop. Yeah, they can't though because their house broke because they had to buy the big house. So before they

Sage: [00:19:59] Or they feel like they've sunk in so much money into it that they have to be there.

Wyatt: [00:20:03] Now, I got to paint the fence and I got to fucking mow the lawn and they got to have a lawn mower.

Barna: [00:20:06] Come on man. Fight club quote. Let's hear it.

Wyatt: [00:20:08] Which one.

Barna: [00:20:09] "Things you own end up owning you"

Wyatt: [00:20:10] Hundred percent they do grew up on that one and the book is even better than the movie.

Barna: [00:20:15] So so anyway, free market can handle it. And then the next statement is "that's why the state government needs to step up and do something about it." The only thing the state or any other government entity has to do is step off, get the fuck out of the way. If government...

Wyatt: [00:20:34] That person is wonderfully misinformed.

Barna: [00:20:36] So if you read a book on housing, you will notice that the historical reason why suburbs were built, it was built because government created a rule that they thought would be good. It turned out to poison the fucking planet.

Wyatt: [00:20:52] Unfortunately, yeah. I mean, as is the case. Right, like the government's slow moving and when they do something and they were even slower to undo it.

Sage: [00:21:00] Yeah. You see the rise of suburb development and then you see that whole area, that fad basically change and then you see everyone moving back to the cityscape.

Wyatt: [00:21:09] Yeah. Why, exactly.

Sage: [00:21:10] There's a great book on racism and suburbs.

Wyatt: [00:21:15] Yeah, dude, there are many.

Barna: [00:21:16] That's what I'm talking about.

Sage: [00:21:17] Yeah. It's, it's, the correlation is like we're going to send him here to kick him out and then send him back. But you can't literally afford to live in of the places.

Wyatt: [00:21:26] There's gentrification. There's a host of fucking problems there. And so I mean, we've, we've created the current landscape as humans. We also have to create, and some people have to get out of the way, solutions. It's not that complicated and we're not going to get anywhere hating one another. We're just fucking not.

Sage: [00:21:47] We're saying all of these things in jest. Ultimately comes down to these people are not educated on the subject. They don't really want to be educated on the subject.

Barna: [00:21:56] And they didn't listen to the podcast. Otherwise they would know all this stuff.

Sage: [00:22:00] Or, you know, read the article.

Wyatt: [00:22:03] Most of those folks didn't read the article, which is, again, whatever their just disagreeing on a politically thing. There's a reason I didn't chase that fucking rabbit down the hole..

Sage: [00:22:10] There's there's quite a few people that say, oh, I see that you're like this. So I'm not going to be. I hate this.

Wyatt: [00:22:15] I'm not I'm not participating. So people want to know. A lot of people want to know. Where's the chip on my shoulder. I'm like, you motherfuckers is where it comes from.

Barna: [00:22:23] Why are you such a dick? Because I talked to you!

Wyatt: [00:22:25] Yeah. We're mirrors man.

Barna: [00:22:28] You're not even the first one. There's a hundred before you.

Wyatt: [00:22:31] And like, I'm, I'm a really nice guy. If people are nice, I'm not that nice if people aren't that fucking nice, it's like it's ok. Like I can't be nice to everybody and you can't save them all. But every once in a while I'm like, and what is it that you've done? What is it you've risked. Everything? Like I risked everything? Everything?

Barna: [00:22:56] You're not going to find that. Very, very few people are willing to do that.

Wyatt: [00:23:00] So that for me is where it's just like and I'm blessed, right. I got a business partner. I have a great community, all of that's there. But I think everybody sees that level of risk and respects that level of vulnerability too. Plus, it helps that I'm not sitting at home eating Cheetos. .

Sage: [00:23:18] As much as you'd want to be right now.

Barna: [00:23:22] I just had dinner but, Cheetos?

Wyatt: [00:23:25] When my mom used to go on road trips when I was younger, we would always pick up Cheetos and Coke and that was kind of our gig. And now I'm like, Cheetos and Coke, two things that I would never let enter my body again. I'm sitting there.

Barna: [00:23:39] All right. Let me let me do one more. They're me. A good one, though.

Wyatt: [00:23:42] Awesome.

Barna: [00:23:43] "It's a shame tiny homes are so regulated or even outlawed in many parts of the state. How about deregulating them on this on a state level? So shipping container homes are actually viable everywhere?"

Wyatt: [00:23:56] Yeah. Now that person's knows the struggle. Guaranteed that person has been involved in something, tiny home related to learn that that comment is justified.

Sage: [00:24:07] Or have tried to research it for five seconds.

Barna: [00:24:09] But we actually want say that is in this in the building code, I think Brad posted the ICC or something international. There is code for utilizing shipping containers and then the tiny, tiny house code is like Appendix Q or something like that. I just listen to a podcast on this. But like in the next version of the code that comes out, 23, I think is what they were saying. It will actually be integrated into the rest of the code.

Wyatt: [00:24:38] It wont be twenty one?

Barna: [00:24:40] No, the twenty one has like the appendix.

Wyatt: [00:24:43] Because 18 is like where everybody is at now.

Barna: [00:24:44] Yeah, that is the appendix Q I guess. And then anyway the twenty three, I guess, is where it will be merged in will be tiny house good will be part of the code, not an appendix not a whatever it'll be in it.

Wyatt: [00:24:57] Yeah. Keep in mind Florence is still in 2006. They're not going to.

Barna: [00:25:01] It's not nine?

Wyatt: [00:25:03] No, Canon was in 09

Barna: [00:25:06] There are on 18 now.

Wyatt: [00:25:08] Yeah. Yeah. But they can accept and they can, they can accept and leave out certain light items as well. They don't have to accept it full.

Sage: [00:25:16] Yeah. As is, they can adjust it.

Wyatt: [00:25:18] They can do line item exception. So that be one of those things where you know when will we see twenty, twenty three in Florence? If it's inside of a decade from right now it would be a fucking..

Barna: [00:25:29] I don't think Richard's down with it. I mean when we've talked to him he's like yeah there's just so much cost tied in with it. It's just so expensive to meet all the new regulations and like R value requirements. Right. Like that, that one way up too.

Wyatt: [00:25:45] They didn't go way up. We were still we were still maintaining them in ours. Twenty in the walls. thirty eight in the ceiling and I think thirty in the floor system. Thirty eight, R-38. Find me a fucking old house that everybody who's bitching about this lives in and tell me that that's what they've accomplished. And I will, I will just laugh, because it's not a thing.

Barna: [00:26:13] That's the other thing, too, is that you were in a community that's majority older houses, so there haven't been that many housing starts in general just recently in the last couple years.

Sage: [00:26:24] How many building permits for residential have they actually given in Florence?

Sage: [00:26:29] It's not that many.

Barna: [00:26:30] This year, it was about a month ago when we talk to them about it. But it was like four, and we were 25 percent of that.

Wyatt: [00:26:37] And we'll do another one.

Barna: [00:26:38] And we're doing another one. So, yeah, we'll be 40 percent of all the building permits.

Sage: [00:26:41] And there's a development in the spring that's looking at six thousand.

Barna: [00:26:46] Well, new construction. Yeah. This is new house, new construction. Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:26:49] Yeah. That many house starts in a year.

Barna: [00:26:51] Yeah. Six months.

Wyatt: [00:26:53] When you need

Barna: [00:26:55] 300

Wyatt: [00:26:56] Well when you need housing so badly too. It's like you guys have to either make some exceptions. Or I'm not necessarily in favor of that because exceptions tend to last a lot longer.

Barna: [00:27:08] I don't even really think it's exceptions. I think it's literally just like get a little bit out of the way and.

Wyatt: [00:27:15] A little bit, and respect the urgency.

Barna: [00:27:16] And and we have costs and here we have costs. So even though there's not enough developed land and real estate development is so expensive. So things like water, tap discounts, something like that would work. But then you also need a performance bond. I mean, I'm for doing things like that to make sure the projects happen. Yeah, but we need something.

Wyatt: [00:27:42] We need something. And like we've said before, our solution isn't the solution. It is a solution. Yeah. So just like if you don't like it, I understand that.

Barna: [00:27:55] #freedom, #housingchoice.

Wyatt: [00:27:55] Yeah. I can respect the fact that you don't want one. I also know that if the big storm comes through I'll be fine. And I'll build you a new house on the other side because I won't have to be building mine.

Sage: [00:28:06] Ultimately those, those comments like boiled down to like four questions.

Barna: [00:28:10] Yeah, so that'll be on the website is the frequently asked questions is so the four basic questions were basically cost. I didn't read any of those. All the comments didn't show up on my phone but.

Sage: [00:28:24] So a few of them were like oh tiny houses are great but they cost one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It's like if you want to do everything, like you can make a tiny house with all of the fittings and all of the fancy stuff of a three hundred thousand dollar house and put it into a tiny house and it's 150 thousand dollars.

Wyatt: [00:28:39] Right I've need saying that a long time, but what does it cost and what do you want? You want granite?

Sage: [00:28:45] But that does not have to be like that's not the average. That's just the things that are highlighted on Pinterest, Instagram and YouTube. Those are the ones that are showcased. There's many, many others that are like, I'm living in this as a house and you can make it sustainably and affordably.

Wyatt: [00:29:00] You know what we used to call tiny houses, you know, we used to call em?

Barna: [00:29:02] Houses?

Wyatt: [00:29:03] Cabins. What the fuck are you guys talking about?

Sage: [00:29:07] There wasn't a tiny house. It was a house. And then you built on to it.

Wyatt: [00:29:10] Yeah, he had additions. And if you had a little thing where you were going to go to every once in a while because you were actually going to finally be outside. And you just need a place to go to the bathroom and cook and sleep there called cabins. And they don't have walls in the interior. There's a fucking cabin. It's really not that complicated, but whatever. That's all I got. I want to take this bento box home that Barna treated us with. I'm going to swallow the contents they're in and I'm going to bed.

Barna: [00:29:36] And we'll.

Wyatt: [00:29:39] We'll do this again soon.

Barna: [00:29:40] Maybe.

Wyatt: [00:29:41] What do you mean? Fuck. That's it.

Barna: [00:29:44] All right. Thanks a lot.

Sage: [00:29:48] Thank you for listening to another episode of our podcast, go to our website for show notes and how to contact us. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter @notatinyhouse and on Instagram @notatinyhousepodcast. If you listened this far, you probably enjoyed the podcast and found the content valuable. Go ahead and share it with your friends and on social media. Please rate or review our podcast and follow us to get notified about our next episode. And we'll talk to you next time on It's Not a Tiny House.