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Sage: [00:00:00] Welcome back to It's Not a Tiny House podcast where your hosts, Wyatt Reed and Barna Kasa talk about all things housing while working on creating a unique and affordable housing solution in rural Colorado. They cover everything you need to know from city code to financing by interviewing experts and sharing their personal experience so you can have the knowledge to overcome the problems nobody else is talking about. And now, onto the podcast.

Wyatt: [00:00:26] So we're back with the Tiny, Not a Tiny House podcast, I should say.

Barna: [00:00:30] And your name is.

Wyatt: [00:00:31] I'm Wyatt.

Barna: [00:00:32] My name is Barna.

Sage: [00:00:33] I'm Sage.

Wyatt: [00:00:35] And here we go again.

Barna: [00:00:35] And he's our rock star producer who is sitting in on this one. When we start making fun of the people really hard.

Sage: [00:00:43] I didn't even though I was going to be part of this episode.

Wyatt: [00:00:45] You want to you wanted to start with our

Barna: [00:00:46] Yeah, we'll start with that one, though, right.

Wyatt: [00:00:48] So like an update.

Barna: [00:00:49] Yeah. This is our update episode to let people know because we did basically a series on what we're doing. A lot of ranting and raving.

Wyatt: [00:00:55] Yeah. And Wilco said it was pretty aggro. Which is fine.

Barna: [00:00:59] And then we got smart and actually invited people who are way more intelligent than us. Yeah. So that kind of. Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:01:07] From civil engineers to architects, to real estate brokers and agents to lobbyists now. Tech folks, all kinds of great guys.

Barna: [00:01:16] Yeah. And we value them so they can shed some light on the basically the same topics we're all doing we were doing before that, but also like different angles and a lot more information. And that was kind of our development series. It's like how to develop a community or how to develop a project basically from, you know ground up.

Wyatt: [00:01:33] Well and to do so halfway blindly and just kind of fumbling around in the dark like I know how to build stuff. What Barna and I both know how to do now is figure out, you know, the answers to problems and working towards development.

Sage: [00:01:46] Yeah, you both had an idea that you wanted to do and then you had to figure out how to do that idea. Feasibly within the law.

Wyatt: [00:01:54] Right. So everything had to be able to kind of play well. And so as we're updating, our top line item for this one is going to be the ADU code passing in Florence, Colorado.

Barna: [00:02:03] So, yeah, we spent 14 months on that. So from the initial conversations at the Planning Commission, which in the city of Florence, if you want to introduce new new building or not building codes, zoning code or new ordinances, it has to go to planning commission first. And they make the recommendation to city council to pass it or not pass it and then they vote. Now, the city council can then send it back with revisions to review it again so the process can kind of drag on. We spend probably six months before we even had ordinance introduced, just talking about it, because there were people who are against it. So we put 14 months into just that topic while we were working on everything else.

Wyatt: [00:02:49] Just to revisit an ADU is an accessory dwelling unit and that is commonly referred to as like an in-law suite. Think a small house or a tiny house kind of in the backyard or on the same property as a principal structure or really what you could do if you thought about it, you could take instead of a traditional four walled, separate building, you could do an addition on to an existing structure and create an apartment there. And that would also be considered an accessory dwelling unit. Some issues there that are worth highlighting, at least in my opinion, are the requirements for additional sewer and water taps. Don't believe personally that that is something that should have been required. But it is

Barna: [00:03:31] It's it's also a major cost. So there's sewer tap as well, like six grand, right? Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:03:36] For a residential unit here and the water tap is another. Can you do it for 2500 if they give you half off.

Barna: [00:03:43] I don't think we needed a separate water tab. I think if you already meet the size requirement and the number of bathrooms, so you do have to do some calculations. But if you need a second one, you're looking at another five, six thousand dollars.

Wyatt: [00:03:56] Exactly. That's before work. That's just for the tap itself. That's not counting excavation. So those are some of the issues, if you will, although passing ADU code at large was a win, it's a good move.

Barna: [00:04:09] And that is how a lot of other communities have started. So exactly. ADU is kind of like the stepping stone to get other code passed.

Wyatt: [00:04:17] Yeah, it's a gateway. You know.

Barna: [00:04:19] It's a gateway drug for us housing people.

Wyatt: [00:04:21] If you're scared of that still, which you shouldn't be number two the obtaining of two certificates of occupancy at our hotel. When you get a certificate of occupancy, it's worth noting that you've then passed all code requirements. So our units specifically,

Sage: [00:04:39] That's good to mention too that it's gone through all of the all of the guidelines that are set for construction in the zoning.

Wyatt: [00:04:46] Because that means everything from framing to insulation to windows to means of egress to fucking bathrooms, etc. like you have to be able to pass all of the rules. That's not from a local building standpoint. That's from state plumbing and electrical inspections. That's full boat, lock, stock and barrel. Like when you have that, that means that your building is a real life building. It's not a shipping container.

Barna: [00:05:12] It's 100 percent legal.

Wyatt: [00:05:13] It's 100 percent legal. Yeah. Yeah. And so the confusion that we've that we've chosen to sort of rally around for at least us is that these buildings that we have built meet and or exceed traditional building structure. So and that includes everything, not only that are some of the most efficient heating and cooling units that actually exist. I would say that these things are in the top 95 percent of efficient buildings on the like. That's how they work.

Barna: [00:05:44] Right. And I think we're heating a couple hundred square feet and cooling something with something that's designed for at least twelve hundred square feet like those systems are not designed for.

Wyatt: [00:05:54] We're oversized that everything super efficient. All that's really great on here. Next, progress on construction for the other two units. So our hotel will have four units they're all now painted. One of them gets spray foam here in the next week. That means it's already been framed out. The unit number three will follow that. Now, it looks like a lot more presentable place in our opinion. My opinion maybe specifically where all the paint is done, it looks bright and vibrant. And I think it helps people that were maybe struggling with the vision initially.

Barna: [00:06:28] Now, I didn't want to paint it. So we that that was kind of like a cave on my part.

Wyatt: [00:06:34] Yeah. Barna had to move on that. But I think I think you think they look good, too, right?

Barna: [00:06:38] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think they look awesome. And it'll help some people overcome their fear of our concept.

Sage: [00:06:43] Yeah. To some people the unpainted container is awesome. I'm one of those people that I think in the certain situations that they're awesome. Yeah, containers are great.

Wyatt: [00:06:52] They're super cool. But it was going to be one of those things where we could ease some tension and then we didn't have a weird, incomplete looking where we would have had an unfinished one in the middle, you know what I mean? It's just it rounded it out. It looks it looks sharp. The large lot progress, costs and problems. So down the road from the Industrial Hotel is a ten acre lot that Barna purchased. And that's began to be, I'm going to just say, scraped. Cleaned Up a ton of that acreage with a

Barna: [00:07:22] So rented, rented a backhoe and also got a local guy who's got a skid steer and had him start just cleaning it up. I mean, we there really it's like a huge ditch, bunch of concrete, rebar, trash, I think the size of the trash pile in the middle, they've still got to haul off is like the size of a bus.

Wyatt: [00:07:44] Probably fill two.

Barna: [00:07:46] We are cleaning it up. So the things that are paved, all the weeds are out. So it's a lot more presentable. We also had a lot of footage of that, a lot of video and drone footage. Yep. We're working on putting a video together, kind of like introducing that concept is based on, you know, what Kevin said earlier. I started introducing that concept nice and slow with the proper messaging of what we want to accomplish. And that has we've run into a couple of problems where there's a fence line with with a neighbor. And, yeah, our guy was there working one night and neighbor comes over and says something like, you're trespassing on my property. And he's like, well, got to talk to the owner because I'm not the owner. I just work here. Either way, you're trespassing. Your car's parked right in the middle of the property. Right. So.

Wyatt: [00:08:39] Just some interesting land issues there. Well, you know, they'll have to be a survey done.

Barna: [00:08:44] So hold on. I had so I had the Troy called me that night and I am like, O shit. All right. So now I got to deal with this bullshit, I get a hold of my my realtor, my banker and my title company to get me my deed. That has a legal description of what I purchased, which is linked directly to the survey I had done right after purchase as well, to have all the corner pins located. So when I went there next morning to get Troy started on cleaning up the lot for the day, the police showed up because the neighbor called the cops on him, me. Had a nice conversation with the officer and told them what happened. And I'm like, yeah, I know exactly where my pins are. I know where all the corners are located by a surveyor who is licensed in the state. I have a stamped survey. So there's no doubt where the corners are. Now, if we want to talk about is the fence, you know, somewhere else we can do, Have him call me. Yeah, it's like that. That's how this works. This isn't like you coming over threaten somebody else. You just have a conversation with your neighbor. So, yeah. So that was a minor issue. And then later, half of City Hall started making fun of me every time I went there from a building inspector to people at the front desk, all I heard your causing trouble. Police were out on your property and you're already like, you know, can't get along with your neighbors. I'm like I did nothing.

Wyatt: [00:10:15] Yeah, that's funny. Did you what did you want to read the paragraph, there own certificate of occupancy.

Barna: [00:10:21] So I listened to a bit of occupancy in front of me for the City of Florence Department of Building Inspection, "this certificate issued pursuant to the requirements of the city's building code, certifying that at the time of issuance, this structure was in compliance with the various ordinances of the city regulating, building, construction or use." Basically, it's signed by the building inspector and the city manager has a property address, the owner address, building permit number, use classification, use code, everything, construction style.

Wyatt: [00:10:54] Yeah, that's what you get when you complete a building, you get a certificate of occupancy. So only because we fielded a few questions or heard, I should say, a bit of hearsay in and around, not only the Internet, but a local city. When you have a certificate of occupancy, you've met code building requirements. That means, yeah, you have everything and it is done. It doesn't mean it's partially done. So I just would like to clear the air on that. Now, moving on, development agreement changed.

Barna: [00:11:26] So, yeah, we had sold in the big lot, as it turns out, because one of our neighbors told us that there's a development agreement for the large a lot the ten acre lot.

Wyatt: [00:11:35] I was like confused for a second.

Barna: [00:11:38] So it turns out it's it's like an agreement that was done between the city. And if you're you're a developer and you want to develop a piece of land or you subdivide something, you have an agreement that you make with the city that says you will do certain things in a certain number of phases over a certain number of time, you will ensure what you're doing. You will do. It's a list of things you agree to for the city. Now, this agreement was done 17 years ago, ballpark.

Sage: [00:12:05] Yeah, it's tied to the land?

Wyatt: [00:12:07] Yeah. It runs with the land.

Barna: [00:12:07] Yeah, it runs with the land. So because I bought it, it goes with whoever currently owns it. So this neighbor in the same subdivision, the Brown subdivision, he brought over the agreement, gave us some copies and it was a pretty egregious over the top agreement where if you're the developer, you will buy, you will pay for all curb, gutters, roads, sidewalks, all utilities will be run to and from the property and abutting roads.

Wyatt: [00:12:38] So anybody seeing that,

Sage: [00:12:39] Oh, my gosh,

Wyatt: [00:12:40] I'm going to incur a million just to get that thing to where I can build on it.

Barna: [00:12:42] So that's when I paid for a sewer line feasibility study with the ballpark estimate. So we're looking at three quarters of a million just dollars just to run the sewer line. And that's not. And that's and that's when you get your curb, your gutter on top of that. So you're looking at a million bucks just to start moving.

Wyatt: [00:13:01] The Sanitation District Council said no because it would require a pump station anyway. And they said we don't have a way to do that.

Barna: [00:13:06] And it would have required a ton of work and approval from railroad and two ditch companies, all that. So anyway, we approached the city. They have been pretty good to work with on this subject. We approached the city about modifying it. We didn't want anything that some of the people like, we don't want anything special for us. We just want the same agreement with the same terms that another subdivision had down the street, literally across the street from this subdivision. And we got those changed. And that basically says we paid the city a certain dollar amount, and then we don't have to do curb and gutters, so we have that signed, stamped, paid, everything, so that lot is now open for redevelopment. So if you're buying a piece of land, make sure there isn't a subdivision agreement part of that property that says you're responsible for everything.

Wyatt: [00:13:59] And to get that document kind of worked on melted is it can can be expensive and quite time consuming. Next, of course, I got married. So that was cool. I found somebody that, you know, she said she was going to stick with me forever. That was neat I can't figure it out. I don't ask any questions.

Sage: [00:14:19] Pretty crazy.

Wyatt: [00:14:21] It's fucking legal at this point.

Sage: [00:14:22] Don't ask too many questions

Wyatt: [00:14:24] No I don't. I do not.

Barna: [00:14:25] Hey, you know, and if you ever get a divorce, you get to take half her stuff.

Wyatt: [00:14:31] I'm not worried about that.

Barna: [00:14:36] That was hinting at you not having any stuff.

Wyatt: [00:14:37] Yeah, I know what you're doing. So that that load has been lifted off the shoulders in and amongst all this other stuff.

Sage: [00:14:47] So just so you said you got married, but that also meant like. Yeah, you were working on the the property. You had to get all these the stuff done. Yeah. For the way he got a haircut.

Wyatt: [00:14:59] I got a haircut.

Sage: [00:15:00] And then you got married and then you were gone for a couple of days.

Wyatt: [00:15:04] We were gone for two days.

Sage: [00:15:05] Ok, two days. But for like off of like working you were.

Wyatt: [00:15:08] Oh no.

Sage: [00:15:09] You took a little bit of a break.

Wyatt: [00:15:10] Three days.

Sage: [00:15:11] Yeah. There you go.

Barna: [00:15:12] Round it up.

Wyatt: [00:15:13] Like three days. We just kind of got back into it.

Barna: [00:15:16] Took a nap, looked at that stuff.

Wyatt: [00:15:18] Yeah. So that was good. Now. Yeah. Started a house in Westcliffe and obviously I think I know I hadn't mentioned it, the container coffee shop that is going to get shipped up to Minnesota as well.

Barna: [00:15:30] So let me add on to that. So we have received a ton of press.

Wyatt: [00:15:37] Yeah, that's next.

Sage: [00:15:40] That's even an understatement.

Barna: [00:15:40] Yeah. So in my notes I have you're working on the house in Westcliffe. Which has beaten the shit out of you.

Wyatt: [00:15:49] Beat the fucking shit out of me.

Barna: [00:15:50] Yeah and that's just today.

Wyatt: [00:15:53] This week. I'm limping along.

Barna: [00:15:55] Barely here. And then you got an order for a coffee shop to be made out of a shipping container which the containers are already delivered. And we're going to do that on the on the large lot, which means we need power there, which is also another thing in progress is getting that temporary power. I just talked to the Black Hills today to help move that along. And since we received a lot of press, we'll kind of go over the well.

Wyatt: [00:16:21] So the press the big move started with Colorado Sun, right? That was the big one or was Florence Citizen?

Barna: [00:16:29] No, it was actually the press release was the first thing that.

Wyatt: [00:16:34] That's what did it.

Barna: [00:16:37] Yeah. And you worked on. Right. Yeah. Sage worked on the on the case study. In the press release too, or?

Sage: [00:16:43] I help with the posting of the press release and pushing that out. And then I did the layout for the the case study for the Upper Arkansas Retail or Tourism and Retail Sector here locally.

Barna: [00:16:55] So that's kind of Brad's job is the whole like linking everything together.

Sage: [00:17:00] If you know brad he can find someone who know who knows what you are talking about.

Wyatt: [00:17:04] The guy can connect dots.

Barna: [00:17:05] But also like just to connect the messaging around, you know that we are involved with permaculture and landscape design and and that's part of the agriculture sector. But anyway we did that, Brad did the press release and that gave us a pretty big boost on on everywhere social media, on the website.

Wyatt: [00:17:31] Got got some attention to than the other ones that came through. So I know Florence Citizen. Which is a local the local rag here, the local paper. Yeah, they got a hold of that and that ran locally, the Colorado Sun. They came down from like Rifle, which is a few hours drive. They came down and put together a really cool little article. I thought, done really well.

Barna: [00:17:55] Yeah. And he spent the whole day here.

Wyatt: [00:17:57] They were here, he and his his photographer, they did a great job.

Barna: [00:18:01] And then Community Builders, um they do one and that's from Greater Colorado Venture Fund maybe if I remember right.

Wyatt: [00:18:12] Yep, Jamie Finney.

Sage: [00:18:13] I mean you guys got mentioned in Forbes a couple years ago too.

Wyatt: [00:18:17] Yeah. The Off Grid Academy and stuff was.

Sage: [00:18:20] A year and a half ago about at this point

Wyatt: [00:18:21] Yeah. Yeah. it was in Forbes and then. Now yeah. It was that, it was that long ago and then the Pueblo Chieftain came across.

Barna: [00:18:32] They did and interview and photos and some video

Wyatt: [00:18:35] And then that got picked up at NBC or something like that.

Sage: [00:18:38] MSN

Barna: [00:18:39] MSN and I was out Thursday we're out looking up in like Alamosa area. And I get a random phone call. I don't know, I think I got to pick this up. I picked it off and somebody was like, yeah, you've been featured in Vail Daily and we will send you an email. I'm like, what happened? I have no idea. But and then one of the other people came down Becca who came down from.

Wyatt: [00:19:06] Buena Vista. However you want to say it? I don't know.

Barna: [00:19:07] BV. Coming up from there. She's like, oh yeah, you were in the Ark Valley Voice. Like, OK, well, more to add to the list. Yeah, she just mentioned that and we had no idea. So because of that press we have a ton of.

Wyatt: [00:19:21] But then today was Fox 21.

Barna: [00:19:24] Yeah, Fox 21 News.

Wyatt: [00:19:25] Colorado Springs. They came out, did an interview, shot some, some video and stuff and that's going to come out, he said tomorrow, nine o'clock. So it's nobody will have heard this by then obviously. But that means.

Barna: [00:19:38] That was Wyatt's springboard for entering showbusiness.

Wyatt: [00:19:45] Sure, I'm sick. I got a heat stroke or something like that, and they still put me on camera to try and keep it together.

Barna: [00:19:52] So you've been fed and watered. I don't want to hear any more complaining.

Wyatt: [00:19:54] No, I'm doing fine. I'm just ready to go back to bed. Yeah, a little bit taxed, but. But that's good. So, yeah. And the thing I think about the press at that point, that kind of rounds out if you're going to be on either side of the political spectrum, it helps you understand that this isn't one side or the other. And so that's what I think my take away from it is like we always kind of knew that we were going to, you know, shake a tree with with a really progressive idea that we were kind of pushing on. And I think it's rewarding personally. It is. It's rewarding because people are like want to write stories about it. That's pretty validating.

Sage: [00:20:34] It's pretty amazing.

Wyatt: [00:20:36] It's pretty fucking amazing. Yeah. I was thinking I'm like, you know, how many other opportunities have we had where, you know, four and five different media outlets have driven down

Sage: [00:20:45] In a span of two weeks.

Barna: [00:20:46] Yeah, actually thought that something you were doing was cool.

Wyatt: [00:20:49] Was worth reporting on. It was that unique or progressive or different or impactful or whatever. Whatever the fucking words adjectives you need for that. Ah that's that's neat. And like I said, it wasn't one side or the other.

Barna: [00:21:02] Your just not going to write it off like a slow news week or something like that was slow. Let's go look at the shipping container thing down the street like lets interview these two idiots.

Wyatt: [00:21:12] Well, and so with that pushback that we received. So the Governor of Colorado shared the article that was posted by the Colorado Sun. And we talked about this before we were recording. But there was some folks on there that pushed back on the post. And I they seem primarily to be politically motivated, not anything other than that, right? I think that there's an interesting conservative group of people that are just going to disagree with everything that certain political parties have to say.

Barna: [00:21:45] But I wanted to kind of go back to the the press. So based on the press, we also received a lot of inquiries on the website. So put the website together and we just keep adding to it. And now, based on the questions we'll review in a little bit, we'll add that page to the website to answer concerns and questions that people have.

Wyatt: [00:22:05] Frequently asked questions.

Barna: [00:22:07] Yeah, we'll put that on there to answer the basics and then people can always reach out to us. And then later in the show notes our websites and all the various articles and all that other stuff. Yeah. So people look it up and we've got a video.

Sage: [00:22:20] That looks so legit man.

Barna: [00:22:22] Yeah, it actually looks legit? Damn its almost like I have been doing that since high school, doing web stuff. The news section is actually bigger than the rest of the website.

Sage: [00:22:34] The Industrial Hotel, the Industrial Commons and then the rest of the page is the news.

Barna: [00:22:38] In the news.

Wyatt: [00:22:39] Probably cool.

Barna: [00:22:40] But that has also gotten a lot of people to reach out to us and actually show us that there is a demand for this. I mean, just this morning, somebody was interested in, you know, twelve hundred square foot house made out of shipping containers. And it's like the third person that was interested in this and one of the other people that visited is interested in a whole

Wyatt: [00:23:00] Almost like a small, similar to what we did here as the hotel. It would be similar to that, you know, or as four or five units, one of them, you know, or one or two of as like an artist's studio. One of them is like a pop up retail location, that kind of stuff. Which is exactly I think in line with what we were really trying to kick off with this.

Sage: [00:23:20] Yeah, more of a platform.

Wyatt: [00:23:22] Yeah, help people see him, help him gain exposure to it, help them wear off that stigma and go this is kind of neat. Learn about the benefits. Learn about the drawbacks. Yes, sure. They're small. Like, I've never once sat here and been like they're fucking big.

Sage: [00:23:37] They're huge.

Barna: [00:23:39] So much room.

Sage: [00:23:40] I never would have thought 200 square foot was so big.

Wyatt: [00:23:42] Right. They're not large, but they're efficient and they're durable and they're attainable.

Sage: [00:23:47] Yeah. And we'll get into this later when we talk about kind of the questions and stuff of the Facebook page. But this is not the answer. This is an answer to the larger question is where are we going to put people?

Wyatt: [00:24:01] Right. Where are we going to house people safely and securely without, like, literally dumping massive amounts of resources into things that aren't going to last? Yeah, these things will last. It's like a super, super fucking super strong metal tent that's extremely well insulated. Better in certain cases. Depends on where you how far you want to take it. Better insulated than any other fucking residential homes. Not not there's no skimping on the insulation. That's your efficiency. So you got all kinds of efficiency, you've got traditional framing for structure. You've got windows and doors. And I mean, like like we said about the COs, it meets all of the requirements. Otherwise you don't get a certificate of occupancy. Right. And that's that's.

Barna: [00:24:44] Yeah, my question is, do we frame these and put them inside or do they just go in a folder or something?

Sage: [00:24:49] Like where do they go?

Barna: [00:24:50] Yeah. What am I supposed to do with it? Just like sitting in my office awkwardly on a temperature control knob or something.

Wyatt: [00:24:58] Thermostat.

Barna: [00:24:59] Is that what that is?

Wyatt: [00:25:00] Temperature control knob.

Barna: [00:25:02] It looks like a knob. I don't see like the actual detection of temperature, it's just a knob that's sitting there.

Wyatt: [00:25:09] Yeah. So. You can frame them, put them in the room, you can make copies and frame those and then just kind of keep those as reference.

Barna: [00:25:14] Just mail it to everybody on city council.

Sage: [00:25:18] We brought you a gift.

Barna: [00:25:19] I got three bucks.

Wyatt: [00:25:21] With that, do you want to go down into the what it actually cost.

Barna: [00:25:24] So I'm not sure we need to go over the costs. I might fucking go into it a little bit. But so there was also one of the some of the pushback that you touched on earlier is that people said maybe that we didn't follow rules or we didn't do this the proper way or this was never like the done with the proper channels. So I don't have it in front of me, but I do have it mostly memorized. So we're in an industrial two zone I-2 zoning that's industrial, heavy industrial. And the code reads. Anything except residential that unless listed under special use. Right.

Wyatt: [00:26:10] That's close enough.

Barna: [00:26:12] Yeah. It's one to one or two fucking sentences. That's the code.

Wyatt: [00:26:16] That's what it says.

Barna: [00:26:17] And that means, that means what that says is your use by right.

Wyatt: [00:26:22] So it says commercial use is used by right is what it says. And that means any commercial use is used by right inside of that zoning, a commercial use inside of this application is a hotel. You don't need approvals. If it is a use by right, you don't have to ask anybody anything. You can just start building because it's already approved.

Barna: [00:26:42] You don't have to ask permission to live in the house that you just bought on a residential lot, because it is already a house. It's already a use by right?

Wyatt: [00:26:50] Yeah, so when something is written as a use by right, it means that you have the thumbs up in the go ahead. And when people think that they sit in a governing body, for example, and says, well, we didn't approve that you didn't have the opportunity to approve or disapprove because this is a use by right and it's inside the municipal code. I don't have to ask you for permission, because every time I do, anyway, you tell me no. A, we talked about this, right? Like, all you had to do is say yes to a nigh watchman's quarters and you wouldn't have a revenue generating shipping container hotel in your town. That's going to help.

Barna: [00:27:24] Oh, and I never actually finished what I was saying earlier, sorry, you wouldn't have a business, a small business operated by you with approximately a million dollars in orders right now. Or interest.

Wyatt: [00:27:36] That's that's new. That's new news. Yeah. But that's like the. Yeah, I guess I think you've done more of the math and I have truthfully, because I'm just trying to build stuff in the sun.

Barna: [00:27:48] I'm too tired to add up all the work I have to do. There is a lot of work to do.

Wyatt: [00:27:53] So right now. Wyatt is booked for two years if and if these projects work out and even if they don't, you're still booked for two years. Yeah exactly. Got it.

Wyatt: [00:28:04] Fuck. It's great you guys because the whole point here was to, to generate enough revenue to hire employees and to build a business that created a needed product like.

Sage: [00:28:17] It's economic development.

Wyatt: [00:28:18] Well it is.

Barna: [00:28:19] What is it like capitalism?

Wyatt: [00:28:22] That's a word that people use.

Sage: [00:28:25] That's like uppercase and lowercase. Right.

Wyatt: [00:28:27] So it's funny, right? Because I found out when we started this, you know, we were not only going to make friends along the way, apparently we were going to ruffle some feathers. Apparently we were going to do some things. And it's worth noting also inside of this conversation, like what we created was a commercial property, not to be confused with a residential property.

Sage: [00:28:52] That's why it is The Industrial Hotel.

Wyatt: [00:28:53] Yeah, it's a hotel. And so oftentimes people go like what's you know, what's something like that going to do to my property values? And unless you own another hotel and I'm a competitor or we're a competitor of yours. Nothing, because this is a commercial property, not a residential property.

Barna: [00:29:09] And it's half a mile from anybody's house. A quarter mile from everybody else.

Wyatt: [00:29:10] Guys, read the Colorado Sun article. He did it justice. It's next to a literally long abandoned home across from a gravel pit. It's industrial. Here's the fun thing about the industrial area, though. People aren't thinking of. Let's just say you're downtown. There are bars and restaurants and things that are open late in a lot of fucking noise when when the businesses shut down down there. Trust me, I know. I live there. It's quiet. There's no trucks coming by. There's no cars. There's no nightlife. There is there are no neighbors. It's peaceful.

Barna: [00:29:43] Yeah. I think I want to I wanted Sage to actually go and do like a noise level video or study.

Sage: [00:29:49] Yeah, I got a decibel meter.

Barna: [00:29:51] And go do Main Street. How fucking loud it is.

Sage: [00:29:54] Oh yeah. I'm like, I have to go. If I want to go get a coffee and I have a phone call, I have to go on to Second Street, which is right right off of Main Street so I can actually hear.

Wyatt: [00:30:04] It is so loud. And I mean, the industry here is, you know, there are trucks and stuff like that.

Sage: [00:30:08] It's a state highway.

Wyatt: [00:30:09] Its a state highway.

Barna: [00:30:10] So and when Chandler was in town for your wedding, like, I'm trying to show him around and I'm like yelling at him on Main Street because I'm standing in front of the bowling alley.

Sage: [00:30:21] [yelling]

Barna: [00:30:21] Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm like, why the fuck am I yelling? And then we go out, we check out the Industrial The Commons we out there and it's like crickets like literally you can hear crickets. Yeah. There's some humming of some industrial equipment down the way, but it's crickets.

Sage: [00:30:37] That's what insulation for is too.

Wyatt: [00:30:37] That's another thing. Yeah. Like the units themselves, this is this is avoiding the obvious conversation of people's misguided, maybe, beliefs and what they think they're seeing versus what they're actually looking at. The area is unique in the respect that it's actually quiet.

Sage: [00:30:55] Yeah. It's also like on the topic of competition and will it lower property values? It was a property that was not used.

Wyatt: [00:31:04] This was a useless property.

Barna: [00:31:06] There's no way to lower the value of the property when I bought it.

Wyatt: [00:31:11] Correct. No way.

Barna: [00:31:12] No it was literally a dump. People were dumping their trash there. Everything from bottles to needles. I mean we cleaned all of that up.

Sage: [00:31:22] Yeah. So there's also like there's research done to that. The implementation of ADU were tiny homes into a community does nothing but raise the property values in the community.

Barna: [00:31:34] I don't want to hear your hippy comments, Sage, right now.

Wyatt: [00:31:36] You've brought that up. We've brought that up. Yeah. Hippies. Right. And I'm like, sure however..

Sage: [00:31:43] A capitalist hippie. Is that a thing?

Wyatt: [00:31:44] Capitalistic building of a business. Building of a product like working hard to try and do so. Yeah, I respect the fact that what we're doing is a little bit different, but generationally, that's kind of how things go.

Barna: [00:32:01] Even though we're doing something different, we are following all the rules. So even just based on..

Sage: [00:32:06] Your following the rules and then some.

Barna: [00:32:08] Yeah. So even based on commentary, not actually legal requirements just because somebody made a statement. So just on the costs and some of the things we had to do is we had to get the property surveyed and then somebody mentioned, we might know that we are in a floodway, you know, without any facts to back that up. We had to spend thousands of dollars.

Sage: [00:32:31] I think lightning might strike there. So you have to do something.

Barna: [00:32:34] We're going to lightning mitigation later. But then we had to do a floodway survey and get the floodway certificate and then hand that off to FEMA to prove that we're not in a floodway. And that's what to happen.

Wyatt: [00:32:50] This is the thing. You can't do this unless you have access to some fucking capital. Can't. It's fucked. And what we're trying to do is create an avenue for people with a little less capital to have an avenue for ownership. Yeah, they're small, would you rather own a small something or rent a large something you'll get nothing from?

Barna: [00:33:12] No, you're still going to rent a small something for a lot of money. You're not going to get a large anything.

Sage: [00:33:18] Yeah, that does not exist

Wyatt: [00:33:20] At these dollar amounts. It's just it doesn't make any sense.

Barna: [00:33:24] So yeah. So we did so we had to do multiple surveys of the surveyor. That was thousands of dollars that we had to do the sewer line related items. Then turns out we need a septic system so that had to be engineered. So that was thousands of dollars, not to mention actually putting it in and all that. But yeah, just paperwork. We're looking at thousands of dollars now. Each building is separately permitted. So we had inspections on everything, even the wiring and the plumbing and everything in the ground.

Wyatt: [00:33:55] Even the fucking plan. Even the plan has to be approved before you can start. It has to be an approved plan and then you get a permit. And then when you get a permit, he comes in and he does inspections, not he, them, because there are several different levels of inspection that take place plumbing, electrical, mechanical and then building structure. And that's everything from foundations.

Barna: [00:34:17] And all those things cost money.

Wyatt: [00:34:18] Well, that's a part of the if you need a reinspection, you have to pay additional. But that's your building permit here. It's based on the percentage of the project. So here I think it's is it two or three percent?

Barna: [00:34:33] Did that cover the plumbing permit, too?

Wyatt: [00:34:36] That does not cover the plumbing and electrical.

Barna: [00:34:37] That's what I'm getting at. Like all those costs some money too. Plus, if you fail or whatever, then you got to do reinspections.

Wyatt: [00:34:45] They got us on one. I mean, just so you know, the finicky ness of it, if you will, if that's a word. But water temperature being two degrees too low and not too high like a scalding thing, two degrees too low. I said, well, can we turn the thing up? And he said, no, it'll be a fifty dollar reinspection fee when I come back. Thanks like it's 50 bucks.

Barna: [00:35:07] But can I just turn the knob and for 2 degrees like it obviously works,

Wyatt: [00:35:13] Yeah. So I mean, it's things like that that you one would think. But at the same time, a little bit of me wants to respect the fact that guy's holding the principal, like, really tight. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, OK.

Sage: [00:35:25] We'll just proves it even more that you got the certificate of occupancy. If they were holding you up with two degrees.

Wyatt: [00:35:31] That was on a different project. All of our stuff here passed with flying colors. I mean, hell, the plumbing inspector got here, he was like, what am I looking at? So he needs to know, like, what the land usage ias. Right. This is a commercial property. So that's the standard. OK, and he said, you know, in 35 years of doing this, I've never seen anything like this. This this could be really great for you guys, the fucking building inspector that I won't name that some guys have had a hard time with, like he got it. Trust the fucking people with their boots on the ground. They know what they're looking at. I don't mean guys that have hung a fucking picture and want to criticize you for whether or not you've got insulation inside of your house. Right. This is these are real trades professionals trust those guys.

Barna: [00:36:13] Yeah. So we had to hire code consultant, and she's the one who helped us navigate the industrial zoning versus whatever else.

Wyatt: [00:36:20] We kind of I think we were tiptoeing around it. You more than me at the at that particular juncture, like you were like, we can kind of do that. Right. And she she came in, that's Angela, you guys heard us talk about her. T-Rex. If you were, yeah, if you if you go back in the Rolodex.

Barna: [00:36:36] The the most listened to or watched YouTube one I think the T-Rex picture did it. I'm just going to point that out.

Sage: [00:36:43] Yeah. In the Not a Tiny House Podcast lore she's the T-Rex.

Wyatt: [00:36:49] That's fantastic. Yeah. Parking plan and architect had to do that and it's got to be stamped which is another..

Barna: [00:36:56] But it doesn't. So that's the thing. Ours, ours, ours was our parking plan was done by a licensed architect.

Wyatt: [00:37:03] And they put him through the ringer.

Barna: [00:37:05] And then they put him through the wringer during what should have been like oh you have a parking plan, you meet and exceed the requirements. Thank you. It's passed.

Wyatt: [00:37:14] But that's not how the conversation went. Well, what are you doing down there? You got this going on. It's like you get to speak to what's on the agenda. That's it. And so people not respecting the boundaries with which they, you know..

Barna: [00:37:25] But other people come in with, like Microsoft Paint as their parking plan. And that's that's cool.

Wyatt: [00:37:35] I've seen them with crayon.

Sage: [00:37:37] I got my granddaughter to write this out.

Barna: [00:37:40] So so we actually like met and exceeded all those requirements too.

Wyatt: [00:37:45] Yeah. And I love that. Well, this didn't go through appropriate levels. It's like you're right. It went through way fucking more. Our project was was I'm going to say attacked. I'm not going to say names.

Barna: [00:37:56] Repeatedly.

Wyatt: [00:37:56] But it was repeatedly attacked by certain individuals. Yes. Next, of course, dirt work, grading, road base and gravel. And a lot of that cost was actually saved, but it was paid in labor to a local contractor because we were able to get a lot of the rock and gravel from the large lot brought down to the Industrial Hotel. So instead of, you know, buy a new product and do whatever, somebody's got to go home with a paycheck, which is pretty damn important because then he has money in his pocket, make his truck payment and buy a cup of coffee and do whatever. And that's called economy. Yeah, a stagnant economy is a dead economy.

Barna: [00:38:33] We've moved plenty of money around in this community in the last several years. Right?

Wyatt: [00:38:40] Concrete. Yeah. Contractors contacted. Some didn't show up. I'm not I'm not doing real good on concrete guys right now. So if you actually one that shows up holler at me.

Barna: [00:38:50] Yeah, we got work.

Wyatt: [00:38:51] Oh my gosh. That was another several thousands of dollars that went into curb apron, ADA parking spot. Yeah. Because, you know, we're required to have an ADA parking spot.

Barna: [00:39:04] If you are a hotel.

Wyatt: [00:39:04] Technically we could have fought that one because it's up to 25 units. But we want an ADA unit anyway. And it kind of greased everything because that was the first question, not the first question. One of the first questions the plumbing inspector asked about was an ADA unit. Yep. That one is planned, he said good. Paint, type, cost, et cetera. Yeah.

Sage: [00:39:23] Thank you for listening to another episode of our podcast, go to our website, for show notes and how to contact us. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter @notatinyhouse and on Instagram @notatinyhousepodcast. If you listened this far, you probably enjoyed the podcast about the content valuable. Go ahead and share it with your friends and on social media. Please rate or review our podcast and follow us to get notified about our next episode. And we'll talk to you next time on It's not a Tiny House.