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Show Notes

Our Guest
Jeffrey Wilkins - Cinematographer

Businesses Mentioned
Fire Age Homes

The Off Grid Academy

The Industrial

California City Podcast


Sage: [00:00:00] Welcome back to It's Not a Tiny House podcast where your host Wyatt Reed and Barna Kasa talk about all things housing while working on creating a unique and affordable housing solution in rural Colorado. They cover everything you need to know from city code to financing by interviewing experts and sharing their personal experience so you can have the knowledge to overcome the problems nobody else is talking about. And now onto the podcast.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:00:26] So I was talking about the chicken coops. I really don't need them, so I'm thinking about converting them into a small house, not a tiny house, a small house.

Barna: [00:00:38] Is it a micro house at that point? It's how big is the chicken coop?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:00:42] Please define micro. For two, is that some gameshow?

Wyatt: [00:00:52] IRC twenty eighteen book, we were totally wrong, technically, this is a tiny house podcast because anything under 400 square feet, it's in the twenty eighteen code.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:03] You got to change your logo?

Barna: [00:01:04] Everything. Will have to change everything. We've got to start over. We're going to scrap everything. Sage thanks for all the hard work, throw it all away.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:11] I mean, the three viewers that you have?

Barna: [00:01:13] Listeners

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:14] I'm sorry, eight listeners.

Wyatt: [00:01:16] And in truth and fairness us to that. I'm one of them. So I don't know, Sage is another one.

Barna: [00:01:20] Sage is two, Brad listens, you four. We only have one person listening right now that's not in this room.

Wyatt: [00:01:27] Yeah.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:27] What's up, bro?

Wyatt: [00:01:28] Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to have a conversation with you,

Barna: [00:01:31] Steve, you are great.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:31] You know, there's another chair here. You should just come down,

Wyatt: [00:01:35] Seriously, whatever you have to contribute. Listen to yourself like I do.

Barna: [00:01:39] Would you do that, like find out or listeners one listener's name and just just every day, like, hey, Steve, how are you doing today?

Wyatt: [00:01:46] Well, that's the other thing about it, right? Like right now we we don't have..

Barna: [00:01:50] This is going out to Steve.

Wyatt: [00:01:51] Our sample size would be too small if we asked our audience any questions because it's my fucking mom and the other three people here.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:01:59] This is what is going to happen though.

Barna: [00:02:00] No, it's not, Erin. It's not anybody in my family or or my girlfriend, because she's like, I'm not fucking listening to the podcast.

Wyatt: [00:02:11] One hundred percent

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:02:11] This was going to happen, though. This thing's going to blow up and it's going to get big and then people are going to binge on like starting from number one.

Wyatt: [00:02:19] I think it needs a larger body of work.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:02:21] Because that's what I've one. I found podcast. And I'm like, this is great, so I just start at number one. So they're going to hear all this.

Barna: [00:02:30] But you got nothing going on. So I think we should say, like who were actually talking to. So we're talking to Jeffrey Wilkins today. He's the most famous person you've never heard of.

Wyatt: [00:02:42] He's put more famous people in front of you.

Barna: [00:02:44] So I've got his resume here.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:02:49] No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Barna: [00:02:51] So his name is..

Wyatt: [00:02:52] A little bit. Let's do a little bit.

Barna: [00:02:53] Jeffrey Wilkins, call him Wilco.

Wyatt: [00:02:53] Its too late, he's already got it.

Barna: [00:02:57] But I can't see, I didn't bring my glasses, so I got to hold it out here. So you're a cinematographer. You live in L.A., Westcliffe, Colorado and Tennessee now. Right. So you might you know, eventually you'll make it, man. I mean, I'm I have hope for you, yet. You might be able

Wyatt: [00:03:19] These up and comers, man.

Barna: [00:03:20] You might be able to buy a house eventually.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:03:21] I just want a jersey from you guys. I want that eighth jersey.

Barna: [00:03:24] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:03:25] OK.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:03:26] I mean, I'm just playing off that last podcast.

Barna: [00:03:29] Yes, because you actually listen to all the podcasts. And you're still here. Ears aren't bleeding.

Wyatt: [00:03:35] So that's the other thing. That's the last podcast that you heard. Now we've got six in the can.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:03:39] Oh really?

Wyatt: [00:03:40] Yeah. Yeah. So nobody's going to hear this until fucking next year. Right. I mean, this whole COVID discussion is going to be over with.

Barna: [00:03:47] But but keep in mind, we're hoping that your star power is what's going to really launch this podcast. So I mean, that that's why you're here. We're going to be like your name is going to be on there.

Wyatt: [00:03:59] You get searched more than we do. So you are actually you're doing us a favor.

Barna: [00:04:03] So, OK, just for all our listeners, you've done work on The Voice, right?

Wyatt: [00:04:10] Can we talk about this?

Barna: [00:04:11] The Apprentice?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:13] That's my fault. Sorry.

Barna: [00:04:14] Shark Tank? Shark Tank?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:17] Yes.

Barna: [00:04:17] Amazing Race?

Wyatt: [00:04:18] That was a great response.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:20] I think so.

Barna: [00:04:20] Millionaire matchmaker?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:22] These are, you picked the wrong one.

Barna: [00:04:24] American guns?

Wyatt: [00:04:26] This is fun.

Barna: [00:04:28] I mean.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:28] You picked the wrong one.

Barna: [00:04:29] Am I correct?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:29] Yeah, but those are just some of.

Barna: [00:04:32] But this is like 2011. So basically your IMDB profile ends in twenty seventeen. What have you been doing with your time in the last four years?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:41] Building houses. Big houses.

Barna: [00:04:44] How big?

Wyatt: [00:04:44] Larger than 400 square feet.

Barna: [00:04:46] I mean you're a your place in Westcliffe. How big is that?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:04:49] It's what is it, 900 square feet. Right. Yeah, it's, it's about 12 because I added.

Barna: [00:04:55] Because you added a second floor basically. You lifted the roof.

Wyatt: [00:04:57] Even still man, traditional standards that's not a huge house.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:00] No, it's perfect for me.

Wyatt: [00:05:02] It's a nice size house.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:03] For two people, really.

Wyatt: [00:05:04] Exactly. So you can get two in there comfortably.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:06] Totally comfortable.

Barna: [00:05:08] You can have a third person because you have an extra bedroom there too.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:10] Yeah. And I want to add on. There's a little outbuilding it has my batteries for my solar.

Barna: [00:05:21] So you are off grid.

Barna: [00:05:23] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:05:24] That was something that we had talked about when when you and I had met one another, you were working on a staircase, got a little help getting kind of some stair treads or not treads.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:35] It was for the barn, yeah.

Wyatt: [00:05:35] For your stuff figured out. And then we began a conversation. And unfortunately, I've been a little too busy to do a lot with you on that. But it was a conversation about the off grid stuff.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:46] Oh, that's right. Oh yeah. Yeah you helped me get solar panels.

Wyatt: [00:05:49] Yeah. Because you were looking for solar panels.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:50] Because the ones I had were from '96.

Wyatt: [00:05:54] Right, exactly.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:05:55] And they were shit.

Wyatt: [00:05:55] So the lifetime on them at that point is shot in the technology. Again, like everything else, today is so much more efficient.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:06:02] So I got six of them and I got so much power. It's awesome.

Wyatt: [00:06:05] So six panels, are they 325, 275s?.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:06:08] I don't know whatever you turned me on to.

Wyatt: [00:06:10] Ok, and so up in Westcliffe, solar, strictly off grid from your power standpoint. So you own your power. And this is a conversation that we had had originally with the Off Grid Academy, which is so you take a Fire Age Home, which is what we built over at the Industrial, and then now you can basically turn it into a purely off grid small shipping container house, right? And that was where that was where we had overlap with each other because we were talking about how to do this and how to kind of do it in Westcliffe, because there's no power, it's it's in the middle of a fucking mountain range. And if you don't have power to your lot, solar is your best option because we have a ton of sun and it works great as long as you know what you're doing with it and as long as your other systems are built to,,

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:07:00] And I have a generator.

Barna: [00:07:03] And you also wind, right? You've got the wind gen...doesn't work that well?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:07:07] I do. I asked whoever I think my solar guy and he was like, it doesn't really produce that much. It's not really worth unless you had a big, huge,

Wyatt: [00:07:16] Big fan and a big power bank. And a lot of times they'll use those for like a well pump. Right. So because you don't you're not constantly running water, so you're not constantly pulling power and they'll use them for like, well pumps and shit like that. Yeah. Just because it's the wattage that they can provide is not super high. And every time you have wind you can

Barna: [00:07:40] But you've got plenty of wind up there.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:07:41] Right. We got plenty of wind yeah.

Wyatt: [00:07:44] Yeah, yeah. No shortage of wind.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:07:45] But I, I like being off the grid. I think even places that are on grid should be off the grid. Well I mean think about it if you're in Texas with that fiasco. You know.

Wyatt: [00:07:59] We talked about solar, the benefits of having the panels on your roof. Right. And so there's a really cool discussion that people have bring.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:08:07] I have a problem with that

Wyatt: [00:08:09] On the roof.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:08:09] I do.

Wyatt: [00:08:10] And I want I want to hear about that.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:08:13] Well, because my home in L.A. needed a new roof. And it was like anytime you screw a screw in a roof, it's potential leak. And so I was actually thinking about you can put them on the roof, but I was thinking about coming on the side of the eaves, not the eaves.

Wyatt: [00:08:28] Your soffits and underneath them.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:08:30] Just on the side. So you don't attach to the roof and then build like a rail system. And then just have a sit maybe on the roof with no. And then and then and then also on top of that think it would be good idea and say the other side or whatever. I don't know, I just I always thought it would be a good idea to you know, because the house gets hot because the suns hitting it right. And then I thought it would be neat to shadow your house with, like, some kind of just anything to shade

Wyatt: [00:09:01] Shade sails?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:09:05] A shade, over your house but I guess solar panels could do that.

Wyatt: [00:09:08] So they can. And so like for me with solar panels, a lot of people go.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:09:12] But leave space in between so the air can go through.

Wyatt: [00:09:14] There's supposed to be a gap so those panels can cool anyway. And so and your hundred percent spot on. I hate penetrations in roofs myself because I'm worried about leaks. Right. But not everybody's got an expanse where they can do a PV array that's not on their roof. Right. And it's like it's a it's a good place. Is it perfect? No, but it's the best place for many people. Its up out of the way, you know, that kind of shit. And you don't have power cords and trying to send electricity over great distances. And that's one of the cool things about lower voltages. And this is like when the discussions back in the day between Tesla and Edison and they were trying to figure out AC, DC stuff.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:09:55] Right. I know all about that.

Wyatt: [00:09:56] To localize shit its DC right. And that's 12 Volt stuff or twenty four up to whatever, forty eight really.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:10:02] Right. But but to send electricity long distances.

Wyatt: [00:10:06] Long distances had to be AC. Yeah. And so my thing with that.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:10:09] And, it's safer DC is safer when the film business. You know if you're around water you run DC.

Wyatt: [00:10:16] Right. And the awesome thing is anything under twenty four point some odd volts, there isn't actual code for it. So you can do it. Oh, you can wire your own stuff as long as it's low voltage.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:10:27] If you know what you're doing.

Wyatt: [00:10:28] Yep. Well

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:10:28] That would not be me.

Wyatt: [00:10:30] And the reason the reason, though, that there's

Barna: [00:10:32] There's a YouTube channel you can get caught up.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:10:33] I forgot about YouTube.

Wyatt: [00:10:33] Well the reason it is not regulated is because its not dangerous. We're in America. We regulate everything, right, and overdo it. So it's probably not even dangerous until you get a little higher voltages and you can't quote me on that. But that's how the code reads. Anything low voltage. There isn't code for it. So a lot of the times smaller applications for solar work good. But but the conversation comes from people where they go, well, it's not carbon zero or net zero because the panels time out and now you have a wasted panel, right, where you have to recycle all of the inputs to create a solar panel because he said,

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:11:10] Like, you mean that raw materials to build it. I've heard that. Yeah, like batteries and everything.

Wyatt: [00:11:18] Batteries are a bigger problem than the panels themselves because Barna knows how to recycle and repurpose a ton of shit I too do that and it's like.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:11:28] And me.

Wyatt: [00:11:29] And, and so to you. And so we go take the fucking panel and turn it into something else, turn it into an awning. Another panel over the top of it. It's already done.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:11:38] A structure. Why throw it away?

Barna: [00:11:41] It's a waterproof surface that you can turn into your walls. I mean, it could be literally be anything.

Wyatt: [00:11:45] Table core.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:11:46] I was going to say they're really actually kind of interesting looking. You could line it up and be super cool.

Barna: [00:11:52] As your new shower surround. Right?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:11:55] Ok, yeah, I wasn't going to go there, but like in your office or something. You could put it in your office and then throw some kind of cool light on it, you know, like on a wall. Just make a wall of them.

Wyatt: [00:12:05] So my argument to that of.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:12:07] Or even solar or your ceiling is that the ceiling panels that would be fucking.

Barna: [00:12:11] I can but I like that argument. So I've heard that a lot when we lived up in Lakewood and we had like a running club and some guy was kind of against solar and all that. And he starts going into, well, you got to make it and it only lasts so long. And so it's it's not like it doesn't take fossil fuels to actually produce a solar panel. But I'm like but every little bit of power that comes out of it after that is free. So there's your startup cost compared to oil where you have to drill for it, where you got like all your startup costs and every single drop has to be produced every single time and transported and refined and all that.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:12:52] And think of the international crap that goes along with that, you know, trying to keep ties with, you know.

Barna: [00:12:59] Oil producing nations?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:13:01] Yes, you know what I mean?

Barna: [00:13:03] It's almost like OPEC was a bad idea.

Wyatt: [00:13:06] If you guys want to jump down that. Well, I mean, by all means, chase that rabbit.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:13:10] Go ahead. Go ahead.

Wyatt: [00:13:10] I guess all I was saying was I don't agree with that argument because that is like a finite like the conversation's over and I'm like, bullshit. If we need if we create a large enough problem that we have a surplus of dead solar panels just laying all over hell's half acre like we do plastic and everything right now, then we'll figure out a way to recycle it. But we've already just come up with seven good ideas of where these items can go and how they can be repurposed. So I hear your argument and I see your argument like from the from those folks, not yours. But it's like, fuck that.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:13:44] I think I would enjoy those. I think a lot of people are going to be like, I don't want that for my wall.

Wyatt: [00:13:53] Fair enough. Always true. And that we go back to the capitalistic if somebody likes it, they buy it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:13:58] If you were able to sell it in a way, you know,

Barna: [00:14:01] I mean, it's all marketing man. Where's Brad?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:14:04] Especially if you're you know, if you knew you're helping the planet out, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like you take pride in, hey, I'm helping the planet out, you know what I mean?

Wyatt: [00:14:12] And there's a there's a growing population, I think, of people that are more motivated to making sure of two things. One, they're helping the planet two their neighbor is the person who gets the money if they're doing business right, like that local movement that we were talking just about, baked goods or eggs or fucking anything, like I would rather buy something from you knowing that you get the money.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:14:34] Right, right. Right. For sure.

Wyatt: [00:14:35] Than from somebody.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:14:36] Yeah. You don't even know that.

Wyatt: [00:14:38] I don't know that that's or a corporation that's a thousand miles from me that I don't care about. And so I think that that what we're noticing and you brought this up earlier when we were talking like the next generation that's coming through called the younger population, if you will, does have a different modus of operation than the previous, better or worse. Not really here to debate that different? Definitely. Is that what you've seen? Because now you're going from L.A. to Colorado to Tennessee. I'm assuming that you're working with people older, younger, all over the place. Are you seeing that as it is that trending up like are you noticing that people think that way or what's it like in your in your work and field.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:15:19] To be honest with you, I don't talk to the people that I work with about things like that because most most people aren't interested in building and stuff. I mean, a lot of people I think that are younger too, or just they don't know how to milk a cow. They don't know how to, you know. They're just they can't do a lot of things that they want. You know what I mean?

Wyatt: [00:15:38] Do you think that it's because they haven't had access to it. Exposure to it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:15:40] I would say that.

Barna: [00:15:41] Or is it the location? So, I mean, there's a big difference between L.A., Westcliff and Tennessee. I mean, yeah, I lived in Memphis, like Memphis, not that far from Ohio, but a world apart. And Colorado is vastly different from that.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:15:56] I don't know, I just it's just probably a generational thing, you know, it's like, you know, when I grew up, I mow the yard when I was twelve. You know, I did stuff and we went out playing in the yard and we didn't you know, we didn't have computers. We didn't sit inside. So I just did stuff.

Wyatt: [00:16:12] And we all have the same perception now, too, that that technology is good as it has been, has also created a generation of parents using those tools. Right. By handing them to a child to do the babysitting.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:16:25] Right. Just like TV in my generation.

Barna: [00:16:28] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:16:28] Which is when I say stuff like that, I'm not challenging other people's parenting techniques. I'm not a fuckin parent. I have no right to do that. Right. But isn't that what we're watching?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:16:38] So, yeah, I don't know. I don't have any kids other than my stepkids, but I think if I did when I was younger, had kids, I would just I would have had to do things, even though I've heard parents nowadays that say, you know, you have limited time on this device. Right. I mean, which is great. And they get them outside and do things and museums. And I love that.

Wyatt: [00:17:01] Yeah, I agree. And I, I had a different upbringing because I think I was still plenty, 20 years behind where everybody was at. They never had to set a limit for me on a television. I wasn't fucking interested in it. Right. I was like, oh, I'm a farm kid from the middle of nowhere, you know? And so it was like and we had access to things. Our father made sure that we had four wheelers to ride and snowmobiles to ride, and I had hockey to practice and baseball to practice. And all these things that like being inside sucked.

Barna: [00:17:31] It's like, yeah, well, what is the one toy I grew up with. I think it's called outside. And we didn't have any of that stuff either. I think we had a bicycle that was like handed down over like three or four generations. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think my parents even had a car when we were little.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:17:47] Totally, like everything's got to be brand new.

Barna: [00:17:49] You walked everywhere, like

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:17:51] You know, everything's got to be brand new now. It's great. It drives me even though the quality is crap.

Barna: [00:17:55] No, my my aunt and uncle ride bicycles that are their great grandparents bicycle's.

Wyatt: [00:18:02] That's so dope.

Barna: [00:18:02] They are that old, like hundreds of years old bicycles.

Wyatt: [00:18:04] They dont make them like they used to.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:18:04] They are not very efficient. But who cares.

Barna: [00:18:08] You just go to the grocery store on the corner two blocks away. Put the food in the basked and ride back.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:18:14] Right. Got some history.

Wyatt: [00:18:16] Hey, if it's not efficient cool, you just work harder and you get your exercise.

Barna: [00:18:19] I mean, we got photos, we have photos like there's a little baby seat on the the top rail of the bicycle frame. And we have photos.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:18:29] You're going to cut all this out right?

Barna: [00:18:31] Hey, come on, man. I'm telling a story. There's photos of multiple generations of babies on that same bicycle. And then my cousin was riding it. You're a dick. Don't cut that out.

Wyatt: [00:18:44] So but but to bring it back to what we've talked about.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:18:50] Go ahead.

Wyatt: [00:18:50] Back to what we're here to talk about. That's all important to the conversation. Right. But...

Barna: [00:18:55] Yeah, fuck you too. Four wheeler. Spoiled. Spoiled brat.

Wyatt: [00:18:59] I know, dude.

Barna: [00:18:59] Spoiled brat dude.

Wyatt: [00:18:59] It was like fucking decadence, man. I'm not fucking around. I know that.

Barna: [00:19:04] I had dirt and a river and a bicycle.

Wyatt: [00:19:07] I'm aware. I'm aware.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:19:08] Bring it back, babe.

Wyatt: [00:19:09] So what I'm trying to ask is three states across the country working with people, not not talking to them maybe. Are you seeing are you seeing small units in the backyards of places? Have you noticed tiny houses?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:19:21] L.A. is going nuts, with their ADUs. Everybody. Yeah, it's crazy.

Wyatt: [00:19:26] Any thoughts on them one way or the other. And you don't have to like them. I'm just curious what your thoughts are.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:19:32] I hate to see neighborhoods, you know, like when I lived in Denver, when I had my house there. Cute little homes, you know, near Wash Park, and they started mowing them down and putting up mansions. Yeah. And they didn't really fit with the with the neighborhood, you know, but and so it kind of destroyed the I think the neighborhood, you know what I mean. So that's upsetting. I understand people want bigger homes and stuff, but seems, Like, like the ADUs in L.A. you know, again, same thing. You know, they're like this one house down the street for me. They basically took the house that was there and the guy did a really nice job, but he made it almost into a modern house. You know, two stories. I think it's two or three homes that they. Yeah. And then the guy down, you know, everybody's converting their garages. You know. Yeah. So and there's the one thing about Los Angeles I don't like that I do like about Denver is there's no open space at all. As a matter of fact, the only park that's near me is right up butted up against the freeway.

Wyatt: [00:20:49] Oh, gross.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:20:50] And it's just a strip. It was like extra land and they turn into a park. And and now because the homeless situation, they converted that park and they're spending, I think, two or three million dollars and they're building these eight by eight little homes for..

Barna: [00:21:08] The sheds.

Wyatt: [00:21:08] So yeah, we had a conversation recently with with a gentleman and his organization that's doing something similar to that up in Denver and the costs that he was sharing with us for those were ten by tens. Hundred square foot. How micro. Yeah. Basically you want to call. It's a fucking shed.

Barna: [00:21:28] It's a shed because it had no plumbing. Nothing. It was just a place to put your stuff.

Wyatt: [00:21:33] It was a wooden tent. That's how I kind of view the way that is okay. Because it has no climate control.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:21:37] Keep them out from underneath the

Barna: [00:21:39] Keep your stuff safe so you can actually go somewhere and not have all your shit go missing.

Wyatt: [00:21:42] Yeah, sure. Go and they're they're movable. Right. So I mean you can pick them up with, with a mule or a forklift or whatever. The mule is basically a forklift that's off road version.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:21:51] OK, yeah. I thought mules got legs.

Wyatt: [00:21:53] Not like the old school mule, mule, and that works really good. Ten and twenty thousand dollars. I mean that's a pretty good range, but that's what he was kind of saying.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:03] What?

Barna: [00:22:04] Fifteen to twenty. Yeah.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:06] Somebody's getting paid.

Wyatt: [00:22:07] Somebody getting paid and that's one hundred percent because and that's without a bathroom and Barna and I...

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:12] And that's why I was saying this, these homes I'm telling you about, I was like two, three million dollars. I was like, for what? You kidding me?

Wyatt: [00:22:20] No, it's it's crazy.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:21] So somebody get some kickback probably.

Wyatt: [00:22:24] The other things there that are at work against us right now are usually the amount of paperwork and and bullshit required from the bureaucracy. For one. And that's time. And that's somebody's expertise and money. And architects and engineers are not inexpensive. Right.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:38] Structural engineer.

Wyatt: [00:22:39] Yeah. And it's important until you kind of go we have one that's not going to break. Right. Like like I talked to the structural engineer.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:22:49] What do you mean what's not going to break?

Wyatt: [00:22:50] Like the house. Like, OK, here's our one model that we could replicate over and over and over and over again. Right. I talked with a structural engineer about shipping containers because the conversation was going from a foundation to a house of the house that we were doing to shipping containers. And essentially what he said to me was, they're stupid to me because I have to do engineering on them that we all know is going to be fine. He's he's like to go through it. He didn't want to spend his time.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:23:19] Let me ask you this question. If you if you if you did that through the one, would you have to do it again and again if you just replicated that same thing over?

Wyatt: [00:23:27] A lot of that has to do with your local.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:23:28] Do you know what I mean?

Wyatt: [00:23:29] Yeah. A lot of that has to do with your local.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:23:30] Because if you did it once and you're just repeating what you did. Why do you need?

Wyatt: [00:23:33] Because there are variations in how they're created and where they're built, not huge variations because they all have to fit together.

Barna: [00:23:39] If you look at the shipping container placard, we have three or four different ones types, they're all slightly different. So like how much weight they'll hold.

Wyatt: [00:23:50] Here's the best part I have..

Barna: [00:23:51] But not enough to matter. Like, it holds five hundred fourteen thousand pounds. The other one holds five hundred nineteen thousand pounds like. Do you have to re-engineer it? Probably not.

Wyatt: [00:24:01] So only because I thought it was really funny, I go, OK, so someone says, what's the you know, what's the snow load of a shipping container. Right. And and for those who may be listening that want to go, well, they're stronger at the Four Corners. Again, we've been here and I know the answer. I know what you're saying. 500000 pounds on 320 square feet. OK, I'm doing the math right now on my calculator.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:24:26] That's a phone.

Wyatt: [00:24:26] That's that's that's one thousand five hundred and sixty two and a half pounds per square foot. That's well over 10 times. The building requirement. So, I rest my case. Shipping containers offer you the fastest way, the least expense and the most mobile solution to what we've been talking about. Yeah. And as long as they fit the square footage. But what we've hit with people as well, they look like shipping containers. And like I am aware that there's a steel building. Right. They look like they look like an industrial thing. And so architecturally, they may not match. Right. And I go, OK,

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:25:09] That's easy fix.

Wyatt: [00:25:10] Yeah, that's a real easy fix because if you want to spend five grand on siding, do it. If we're talking about a homeless situation, we're talking about, truly low income. You have 14 gauge steel siding that you want me to put an inferior product on that's going to age faster and cost more money there's no point. This is this is the solution for low cost, just just putting it out there. So the military can use them. I just had a conversation this morning with a guy who's a SOCOM operator. That's like, yeah, dude I lived in one of these for years.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:25:39] I was gonna say the the place where they eat at Universal Studios. The concession, what's it called?

Wyatt: [00:25:49] Commissary?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:25:50] Commissary. Thanks.

Wyatt: [00:25:53] Why would I know, I've never been to Hollywood.

Barna: [00:25:56] We're not famous like you man.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:25:57] They closed the one that's there was in the building and they opened, they got a couple storage containers and, and they, I think they put siding on them or something. They do and it's all reclaimed wood, whatever and they look amazing. I think I sent you a picture.

Wyatt: [00:26:13] I know you've talked about it once.

Barna: [00:26:15] Now, just just you and Kevin Hart, man.

Wyatt: [00:26:17] I know that I heard you talk about it a little bit once when we were.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:26:20] Maybe it was you I was telling

Wyatt: [00:26:21] Yeah. And it's like, yes, you can clad the exterior of it with something. As long as you're understanding two things, you're going to add cost and you're going to put an inferior product on the exterior.

Barna: [00:26:33] And probably drill holes like that goes back to the roof conversation like when you're putting solar panels on the roof try not to put new holes in your roof if this supposed to be waterproof. So you take a shipping container that's waterproof.

Wyatt: [00:26:45] And add holes to it.

Barna: [00:26:46] And then lets put a bunch of holes in it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:26:48] What about the corner and just do like rails and then screw into the rails? That's not attached, you know what I'm saying?

Barna: [00:26:52] Yeah, you can do that. You think that's how people do it? No, they put screws in the.

Wyatt: [00:26:55] Its the expense. They run right through the side of it with a tap screw.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:00] Or you could just build a fence.

Barna: [00:27:03] Yeah, well, on the outside, just build a fence. Can I go back to your L.A. house, how big is that, ballpark?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:09] It's, I think around six hundred.

Barna: [00:27:13] Ok, but do you have, like, a workshop or something?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:16] Yeah, I converted my backyard into a metal shop. Wood shop. Yeah.

Barna: [00:27:21] Did you have a stage at one point in the back?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:24] I did. On top of my hot tub.

Barna: [00:27:27] Yeah. So you had a hot tub with the stage on top.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:29] I made stage on top of it. Yes. I had a band up there.

Barna: [00:27:33] The Wilkins compound is that what it was called?. Yeah? And that's where all the big parties happened?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:39] They did.

Barna: [00:27:39] Yeah. Can you tell us more?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:42] About the party?

Barna: [00:27:46] Yeah.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:46] Ahhh not now.

Wyatt: [00:27:46] Don't, don't name names but I want a good story.Now that I know that that's how you party.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:27:49] I'll have to think about it, it was a long time ago.

Wyatt: [00:27:53] Long time ago.

Wyatt: [00:27:54] Pre-COVID anyway. Eons ago.

Barna: [00:28:00] How much do you think your house is worth now in L.A.?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:02] Oh I think they said it was like eight fifty nine.

Barna: [00:28:08] You got a calculator still?

Wyatt: [00:28:09] Shure. At 1600? Oh is that what you want? A square foot is what you are doing?

Wyatt: [00:28:12] Yeah, I got it. You're looking at

Barna: [00:28:14] Not including the hot tub and stage.

Wyatt: [00:28:15] Conservatively. Yeah, right. Conservatively in that part of the world then you're looking at five hundred and thirty one dollars and twenty five cents a square foot.

Barna: [00:28:24] Yeah.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:24] So, so that's my mortgage.

Barna: [00:28:26] But that's basically why you need, you know ADUs because who the hell can afford almost a million bucks for a 1600 square foot house.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:35] I don't know. I was really lucky I, I bought it.

Barna: [00:28:39] You bought it years ago.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:40] It after the earthquake.

Barna: [00:28:41] Which earthquake.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:42] The 1994 earthquake.

Barna: [00:28:43] 94. You got it cheap.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:46] It was expensive to me because my first house was eighty grand.

Barna: [00:28:49] And that was in Denver right?. How much is that worth, one point two (million)?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:28:53] Yes.

Wyatt: [00:28:55] That's wild. So that's the other thing. Right. Like property values continue to climb.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:29:00] Yeah.

Barna: [00:29:00] So the reason you're here is to help us all understand the how much pricing has increased, right.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:29:07] Yeah. I don't know. I would really hate to be young now, it would suck. How would you buy a house? You couldn't you'd have to buy in some little town somewhere and then just.

Barna: [00:29:15] No, no, no. We're in a little town man. And a manufactured home is three hundred twenty one thousand before land.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:29:20] Yeah, I guess so. I guess you know why there's so many homeless people.

Barna: [00:29:26] There's if only there was a solution and somebody could provide.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:29:29] Oh like what you guys are doing?

Barna: [00:29:31] Yeah. Something like that.

Wyatt: [00:29:32] So but like we've talked about if you look at old old school residential developments, almost all of those homes have an addition on them. Right. So they started at four hundred or six hundred square feet. Right. And then they they then had a child. Or however and they had the money, right. They added on. Sometimes they had around three of the four sides of the fucking house. Right. You can go into.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:29:56] For sure. My dad did that.

Wyatt: [00:29:57] One hundred percent. Right. And now all of a sudden the way that the code is written, you can't build a house that size legally, here anyway, and add on as you go. The minimum square footage requirement for residential is over 850 square feet in this town. So until you have 200 grand to start your house, you don't get a fucking starter house.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:30:16] So if you bought a piece, what you're telling me is if you bought a piece of property here and said, I want to build a house, but I only want it 600 square feet, you can't do it?

Wyatt: [00:30:25] Correct.

Barna: [00:30:26] And hold on. What property are you buying? How much was your first house?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:30:29] Eighty thousand.

Barna: [00:30:30] Eighty thousand. So there's a residential lot available for sale now in Florence that's listed on the market. It's fifty five thousand dollars.

Wyatt: [00:30:38] Bare land.

Barna: [00:30:39] The lot.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:30:40] Yeah I know.

Barna: [00:30:41] So then you still got to build the house, right. That's going to be at least 800 square feet.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:30:46] I don't understand why you can't. That's a stupid law.

Wyatt: [00:30:51] I agree. That's that's our argument.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:30:52] I mean, because, you know, if you're a young kid and you know, you want to build your house, you know, why can't you build something that small that you can fit into?

Wyatt: [00:31:02] Exactly. And then you can grow with it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:04] Yeah. And you might move out and some other kid can buy it.

Wyatt: [00:31:06] Or maybe add on or whatever whichever. Right. You have options at that point. But you don't have options if you get no equity. And that's what the rental market has done. And so what we've got now...

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:16] Are you so are you saying it's skewed towards people...

Wyatt: [00:31:20] The consolidation of wealth.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:22] Got it. That kind of makes sense.

Wyatt: [00:31:23] I'm saying that if you, if you already have money, you can buy another one or obtain another larger mortgage.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:27] Money makes money and then you can rent it to somebody. That's at a dollar amount too high for that person to be able to save money for their own down pay on it. So there they sit. Rental market only.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:37] It's like the education system.

Barna: [00:31:39] They're also like the people don't understand that, you know. Sage, how many square feet are you living in right now?

Sage: [00:31:45] About four hundred.

Barna: [00:31:47] Four hundred. So if you had a house that's 400 square feet, you'd be fine, right?

Wyatt: [00:31:51] And you would have equity. And when the market comes up, you could leverage back out. And, you can add on.

Barna: [00:31:55] So there's somebody preventing you from doing that because there's a law in place.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:31:59] That's fucking crazy.

Wyatt: [00:32:00] It's fucking crazy.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:32:01] I'm not happy about that.

Barna: [00:32:01] Where historically. There are four square foot houses. Like there are, there used to be four hundred square foot houses right in in this town, they all got added on to and, you know, so now they're bigger. Nobody has taken those additions off. Nobody said, oh, let's go back and take the additions off. Because you're paying 250 for that house. So if you took the extra square footage off, you'd be, you know, upside down. But you also can't build a 400 square foot house.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:32:27] So did you ever ask whoever had this law made that question like, why are you doing this?

Wyatt: [00:32:32] I did.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:32:32] And what did they say?

Wyatt: [00:32:33] And I had I asked it in a smart ass way because that's one of the ways I know how to communicate, I walked in and I said, look,

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:32:40] I would listen to the other podcasts, by the way.

Wyatt: [00:32:42] Yes. Sorry. But but here is how the interaction went. I said, I need I want to build a house this size. And this was actually in the county because I was looking at a parcel at the time and and in the county, it's 450 square feet. She said our minimum is 450 square feet. And I said, I don't want to build a 450 square foot house. She said, Oh, well, we brought it down from 800 and something like, that's great. I don't again care what's the maximum square footage was my question. And she said, well, there is no maximum square footage. And so how could you have a book end, a cover on the front, but not the back, right? Well, it is built in because that's dependent on your parcel. You can usually only build 40 to 50 percent. Right. So if you had you had 70 acres, you know, you could have a thirty five acre house. Legally, which is fucked and insane. If you think about it, it makes no actual sense. So I go, why wouldn't we have smaller lots? You can still use your you can still use your calculations for 40 percent. Right. I don't understand like what we're doing here.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:33:43] Maybe because they don't want a bunch of tiny little houses everywhere.

Wyatt: [00:33:46] They already had them 100 hundred years ago.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:33:48] I'm just saying.

Wyatt: [00:33:48] I know.

Barna: [00:33:49] So do we just blame the 1980s? The all the excess, they're like, let's get bigger houses marble and all that shit.

Wyatt: [00:33:57] its just archaic now when you have building materials are super high, land is hard to find that's developable. It's like I understand how we got to where we are. Now we have to change it to move forward. Simple.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:34:08] I like where you're coming from.

Wyatt: [00:34:09] So let's just fix it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:34:10] I really I really do. I it makes sense.

Barna: [00:34:12] But there's no motivation for the people who

Wyatt: [00:34:14] Who already have the wealth,

Barna: [00:34:15] Who already have the wealth, to change anything.

Wyatt: [00:34:17] And they're the ones who sit on boards and have the time and like many, I'll say, are retired. You know what I mean? Now it's like when they're giving back and I'm like, then please actually give back.

Barna: [00:34:30] Not take away.

Wyatt: [00:34:31] Yeah, yeah. Don't don't limit opportunities for young people. We need to open opportunities.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:34:35] They need help, this country needs help. Yeah. For sure.

Wyatt: [00:34:38] And and we're trying and so helping people understand like if I can't buy a house for less than two hundred thousand dollars. Because health care costs. Because education costs. This now I'll never be able to run it. And instead of you continuing to harp that you need to I need to buy a house. You don't need to give me a house. You need to give me an opportunity. And that's what we need is a different opportunity because right now.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:35:04] And you're willing to work for it.

Wyatt: [00:35:05] The math is broken. That that's just basics.

Barna: [00:35:08] The math people right now working three jobs and can't afford an apartment.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:35:12] I know.

Barna: [00:35:12] Like, it's not like we're or people are lazy, like, no, I need you to give me a house or cheap place to live. Because I don't have my feet up or whatever. It's like no. Already working three jobs. Still can't afford a place to live. Yeah, I have four roommates. I live in a basement.

Wyatt: [00:35:28] I have a kid. That's a full time job. You know, by the time you add health care and having a child together, anybody that's younger that's got a kid,I mean holy shit.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:35:36] Well, and then what's going to happen is kind of what's happening in Los Angeles. You know, the homeless or you can't even walk down the sidewalk because, you know, like if you were, you know, had to if you were handicapped or whatever and had to, you know, stroll down the street in your wheelchair or whatever, you know, right there you are out in the street. Because you can't go down the sidewalk and the city's, I guess, fine with it. It's kind of crazy. I drove by the other day and I actually the guy had his tarp open. He had a full blown kitchen in there. He was tapping off the power thing. He had water from the fire, from the fire hydrant. They tapped into that and he had a slide.

Wyatt: [00:36:18] Bring me that guy.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:36:19] Seriously, you should see this video.

Wyatt: [00:36:20] Bring me someone that resourceful.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:36:22] It's crazy. Yeah. No.

Wyatt: [00:36:23] I'm not fucking joking at all get up here, they've got a job.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:36:26] They have like a little wash station. They got one of those porta potties right there. It's crazy.

Barna: [00:36:33] So California is now become a third world country because I've seen that in a lot of places.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:36:37] It's always kind of been, which you know, I mean really.

Barna: [00:36:41] I mean, I've traveled quite a bit and I've seen that basically in a lot of other countries.

Wyatt: [00:36:46] So, I mean,

Barna: [00:36:48] But there's a solution and the fight that we're we're doing here is that we need smaller

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:36:53] So I'm saying is that if you would be able to do what you want to do then, yeah.

Barna: [00:36:56] square footages and lots. I mean we just passed the ADU code here where the one of the arguments was that we don't want to allow ADU on smaller lots, I'm like, but this whole town was designed on 20 foot, 25 foot wide lots, just a fact that those lot lines were obliterated when somebody wants to expand their house, that doesn't mean that's not historically what was needed in this town. This time to have like 15 hotels. This was a booming town. This whole county was was huge oil, coal. We had like three brick factories. We had every major, like retail chain and Canon City downtown. And now it's like, what do we have? McDonald's and a Taco Bell. So it's like there's nothing there's a Wal-Mart. So like what happened to the industry? What happened to all the workers that needed housing? And Brad was here and we were talking about him like, yeah, we got to hire 20 people. Where they gonna live and even if we hire local kids and they want to move out of their parents basement or extra bedroom or whatever, where are they going to go? There's nothing to rent, nothing to buy. Even with a good job in IT.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:38:05] I was thinking in Los Angeles, you know, with everyone, you know, not able to afford a place. So it kicked out on the street. Right. And so here you have all these people on the street and and and then what happens then? Then the government steps in and builds these homes for three million dollars, someone is getting a kick back. And you have all these little homes, right? Yeah. And whereas you're saying, hey, you know, I'm resourceful, I don't really want to be homeless, whatever. If I could just have the opportunity to build a small house on, you know, somebody, lot, or whatever, you know, then they could then they could do that.

Wyatt: [00:38:42] And that adds back to to something I did last night. I finally got onto the website, onto the Fire Home's website and added the opportunity for yourself, anybody that goes, I don't know how to build a house, but I want to put in sweat equity and I want to figure it out. I want to look cool. I set it up so that I will build it with you.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:39:00] Right.

Wyatt: [00:39:00] Ok, so as a licensed contractor. As a professional builder. Right. So that you don't not do something correctly. Yeah. So that you know how to do it correctly. And then after that you take for the cost of a bachelor's degree. You take the house with you wherever you're going to go. Right. And then you have a perspective. You have a portfolio to show a future employer or customer if you're going to do this professionally an example of the home guy, right? Like, I can't build them all, can't want to build them all. We need a fuckin million houses, like in a month. Right. For all these people.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:39:33] So you're talking like almost like a vocational school.

Wyatt: [00:39:35] Exactly. Hundred percent. Yeah. You come here, but you get all the way through, you see all the trades. Either you, you see other

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:39:43] You think people pick that up one time, you know what I mean. You know what I'm saying because that's a lot of learning.

Wyatt: [00:39:49] Record it, video it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:39:50] You know what I mean.

Wyatt: [00:39:51] Yep.

Barna: [00:39:52] Or you can build ten houses. Who's stopping you?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:39:54] Yeah. I mean there is there is a there is something you said about sitting there watching a guy do something.

Wyatt: [00:39:59] 100 percent. And I've worked in old remodels with people that just said, hey, I really want a tour guide for this. And I go, OK, you know, like, I'll I'll build it with you. You can ask me all the questions you want. I'll show you how to do whatever you want to do.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:12] It's called an apprenticeship.

Wyatt: [00:40:13] It's an apprenticeship

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:14] Which doesn't exist anymore.

Wyatt: [00:40:16] Exactly. And this is me going like no you can have...

Barna: [00:40:19] It does.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:19] It does?

Barna: [00:40:19] Yeah, plumbing, electrical.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:21] They still do that?

Barna: [00:40:22] Yeah they do.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:22] I'll be damned.

Wyatt: [00:40:22] Yeah. Yeah. And that's a number of hours worked under, you know, a licensed person in that particular trade.

Barna: [00:40:29] Because I looked into it a couple of years ago because I couldn't find a plumber and would of like become a licensed plumber faster than I could find a plumber locally. Because I looked into, look, I can go to school this many months.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:40:47] You are so weird Barna. You are such a weirdo, I love it.

Barna: [00:40:47] Apprenticeship. Can I work on my own project? Because, I mean, I'll hire whoever I am apprenticing under and hire them to work on. It's like I could have been a plumber in less time than it took to find a good plumber, because that's how.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:41:02] Do you have plumbers crack? Keeping it light here.

Barna: [00:41:06] I own a belt.

Wyatt: [00:41:08] For the record, plumbers crack is Red Bull.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:41:11] I know. I'm sorry.

Barna: [00:41:12] It's what?

Wyatt: [00:41:14] It's Red Bull.

Wyatt: [00:41:17] Its a joke, it's drywall..never mind.

Barna: [00:41:19] It's donuts.

Wyatt: [00:41:20] No, I mean and we've had the good fortune of finding a plumber and stuff.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:41:24] Oh, before I forget, I wanted to add some of the whole homeless thing out there. We took a trip and there is a podcast actually called California City. Look it up. It's six hours. And it's the whole history of California City, which is a little bit north of Edwards Air Force Base near Mojave, and it's 52 square miles and it's all laid out. It's got water, you know, and all that. It's all, you know, all all the plumbing, all the stuff's already out there.

Barna: [00:41:59] So the infrastructure.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:42:00] Infrastructure is pretty much laid out there. It's empty. You know, they were trying to build homes and stuff as a whole scam thing. But anyways and I kept thinking, why are they taking this park away, you know, in my neighborhood, you know, and I'm serious. And why can't they take all these people and build the homes out there where they have space? And not only that, they could build like like some kind of community center and educational thing out there, some kind of medical thing and just kind of have their own little community to get a fresh start.

Barna: [00:42:35] So because that's more than two million dollars. Hold on.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:42:40] It's for them to get a new, fresh start.

Barna: [00:42:44] This was a discussion before is where housing is basically how the cost of housing is in relation to how close you are to opportunity. So if you want to be able to get a job, you got to be where the jobs are. And that means if you put me out in the middle of nowhere, then if you build a community center, the training center or whatever, I still got to go back to the big city to get the job. But I'm still homeless because I still can't afford that.

Wyatt: [00:43:11] It's the traditional inner city issue.

Barna: [00:43:13] You would have to be close to that opportunity to get the job.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:43:17] That's fair.

Barna: [00:43:17] To get the job.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:43:18] You're so smart, Barna. Its crazy.

Barna: [00:43:20] I learned from all the awesome, really smart people on the podcast because I don't know anything.

Wyatt: [00:43:25] So this is one of those things where we studied like in criminal justice. Right.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:43:29] You did too?

Wyatt: [00:43:30] I have bachelors in criminal justice studies.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:43:31] And you have. And you're a plumber.

Barna: [00:43:33] Yeah, close.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:43:35] Well, it's sad, isn't it.

Barna: [00:43:38] I specialize in database design. But whatever that's...

Wyatt: [00:43:41] Inside of inside of that discussion, a lot of the times inner city crime rates, X, Y and Z. Right. Really what there's a population of people there and there aren't enough jobs, traditional inner cities. Right. And so I've heard from numerous people like, well, you know, move away from the inner city where there are more jobs. And I go, OK, so did the person who said that. I usually ask, did you move away from your family? Did you move away from your home? Most of them. The answer is no. Right. So don't discount the fact that people are from where they're from and that's where their family is from and that's where their life is from. And so uprooting not only is it expensive as fuck, and if you don't have a job, how are you going to come up with the money to move A. What guarantee to where you're going, there is a safe place for you to be and a job for you to be employed by. So if you want to do an outreach thing and offer that opportunity, you can.

Barna: [00:44:39] But it's not just that.

Wyatt: [00:44:40] So but it's a bigger issue than that.

Barna: [00:44:42] So when I lived in Columbus, one of the guys I got, get, salvage from, he lives in the inner city. Right. And he's like, man, real estate prices have gone up. I'm like, man, I know in Colorado they shot way up. I could buy a house for 50 grand in Florence or Canyon City. Now it's like 250 is like the kind of bottom where 200 grand is like, oh no, I bought my house for six thousand dollars and they shot up to thirty six thousand dollars. I'm like thirty six thousand dollars for what size house? I'll take three for three four bedroom Victorian. Right. With a decent yard, but it's not in a good neighborhood. So even if you try to move, you're going to sell your house for thirty six thousand dollars and you're going to go out to like northern part of Columbus. That's growing tons of jobs. Everybody's hiring. Six hundred, right, a condo is six hundred thousand dollars.

Wyatt: [00:45:35] Don't even have enough for the down payment.

Barna: [00:45:37] No, that's barely enough money to move. Yeah. And rent a hotel room or an, you cant get an apartment. An apartment is twenty four hundred a month.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:45:48] So what you're saying is the solution is tiny homes.

Wyatt: [00:45:53] A solution.

Barna: [00:45:53] There are many solutions. So, so for housing, the solution right now is allowing smaller lot sizes, allowing duplexes, allowing ADUs, allowing smaller square footages and allowing different building styles like a shipping container where you don't have to spend ten dollars for a stick of two by four. Right. Because if your construction costs one five X. Yeah. And the only way to get around that is to buy a box. That's already has all that stuff in it.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:46:26] See now if I was to do that and I thought about it, I would get like two or three of them or maybe four and build it in like because I saw one somewhere. I can't remember where it was where he built them parallel and they had one in the back and then they had I think he had one on top of that one. And then he covered the front with like a tarp. So it was really is gorgeous. He painted them black.

Wyatt: [00:46:50] Like a shade sail.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:46:52] Yeah.

Barna: [00:46:52] But not like a blue tarp like from Home Depot.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:46:55] Or put two together and knock a couple of doors or cut the center out, whatever. So it's a little bigger. I mean, that's, that's what I would do.

Wyatt: [00:47:02] That's fine and and you can do it that way. Every time you create an opening, you create an opening for money to fall out of.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:47:09] But still, instead of living in a trailer.

Wyatt: [00:47:12] Right. But you were just over at our project. Yeah. You were inside of two separate units. Right. Upstairs unit. A ground level unit. One of them is three hundred and twenty square feet. One hundred one of them is 192 square feet. Livable?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:47:24] Yeah.

Barna: [00:47:25] So, so hold on. You made a comment like living in a trailer. So when you're in L.A., where do you live?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:47:31] Currently I'm living in my trailer.

Wyatt: [00:47:33] Your job trailer.

Barna: [00:47:35] Which is how big?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:47:36] It's smaller than that.

Barna: [00:47:38] Yeah. And you work where?

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:47:41] In Hollywood.

Wyatt: [00:47:44] As he whispers.

Barna: [00:47:44] Let me, let me, recap this. You live in Hollywood, you have a resume longer than I've ever seen in my life. Just going up to 2017. We're going to pretend you're you've been unemployed since then. So you live in an eight by twenty four trailer. Yeah. And you work in Hollywood. All right, just just making sure.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:48:05] It's comfortable.

Barna: [00:48:05] So, yeah, the people so the people who are on the street, if they don't work in Hollywood, don't have a resume this long, where are they supposed to live?

Wyatt: [00:48:17] I heard one guy's got a fire hydrant for water, Mr. Captain Resourceful out there in L.A. who I seriously A want to hire. If you're if you're that if you're that resourceful.

Barna: [00:48:30] If you are listening. If you are that one guy listening right now. Reach out.

Wyatt: [00:48:30] Dude if you are that resourceful and if you can go, well, this is what I need, I'm going to find a way to get it done. You're fucking right. You have the you have the right approach to life.

Jeffrey Wilkins: [00:48:39] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:48:41] I'll figure it out.

Sage: [00:48:43] Thank you for listening to another episode of our podcast. Go to our website, for show notes and how to contact us. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter @notatinyhouse and on Instagram @notatinyhousepodcast. If you listen this far, you probably enjoyed the podcast, found the content valuable. Go ahead and share with your friends and on social media, please read or review our podcast and follow us to get notified about our next episode. And we'll talk to you next time on. It's not a Tiny House.