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Rocky Mountain, REALTORS
Call or Text: (719) 491-1117
Search all homes for sale at: www.peakdream.com
216 N. Tejon St. Colorado Springs, CO 80903
232 E. Main St. Florence, CO 81226
Wyatt: [00:00:00] If you can build it here, you can build it anywhere.
Barna: [00:00:02] I think I'm just going to say that if you don't like something, change it.
Wyatt: [00:00:05] OK? If I build one on wheels, you know, what are my hurdles? If I build one without wheels? What are my hurdles? What's local code requirement going to drive me towards?
Barna: [00:00:13] You could be 60 years old and you want to move your parents into an accessory dwelling unit. They have to go over the same hurdles as a 20 year old that doesn't want to have the lifestyle.
Wyatt: [00:00:23] What we need are safe, secure places that someone can actually afford to live inside of.
Barna: [00:00:29] And this is a recurring theme of we're not going to let you do it.
Wyatt: [00:00:33] And you want a different lifestyle. It's Not a Tiny House podcast.
Wyatt: [00:00:38] It's good times right for..
Wayne: [00:00:40] Well, its..
Wyatt: [00:00:41] Good enough?
Wayne: [00:00:42] It seems, it would seem that way from the outside looking in.
Wyatt: [00:00:45] Yeah, but that's why we're here to talk to you. Because we want to know.
Wayne: [00:00:49] Because the you've got a buyer, say, even 3 to 450 up in El Paso County. Yeah. You're one of 17 to 25 offers. You don't have a chance. So you might be working with the buyer on property. One, two, three, four. Anything you can find. And they'll you know, as as the process evolves, they're making incredible concessions like, wait a minute, I didn't want to live on a busy road and I didn't want to be this far from the kid's school. But what are you going to do? So that buyer. He's actually entertaining Fremont County more than they had in the past.
Wyatt: [00:01:30] This is this is how this, we want.
Wayne: [00:01:33] Some of the best stuff comes before and after.
Wyatt: [00:01:35] The book ends.
Wayne: [00:01:36] Like you're talking in the bathroom.
Wyatt: [00:01:38] And but the conversation is so important to you and you're you're wonderfully comfortable. Obviously, we've had people come in that are very nervous to be on a podcast, even though it's in Barna's office.
Wayne: [00:01:49] Well, with you two here, I can see why they'd be nervous.
Wyatt: [00:01:52] I would be, too, but I'd be more nervous about getting robbed.
Wayne: [00:01:55] Maybe that's a better word.
Barna: [00:01:57] Intimidated by our knowledge and skill set.
Wyatt: [00:02:00] Clearly, clearly, and my inability to barely fit through the door.
Barna: [00:02:08] I mean, we should let our guests talk.
Wyatt: [00:02:12] Speak for yourself. You are all here to listen to me.
Barna: [00:02:17] This is a speech.
Wyatt: [00:02:19] And we haven't had a chance to catch up recently. So you tell me what you're feeling and hearing and seeing
Wyatt: [00:02:25] As far as things inside of the real estate market from from a builder perspective. Is that what you're right. So.
Wayne: [00:02:32] Or any perspective.
Wyatt: [00:02:33] Any perspective at all? I think houses are too expensive. I think many of them that are even close to reasonably priced need more work and more money than many people, as least people inside of many inside of my age range. We haven't had a full lifetime to accumulate, you know, equity and wealth.
Wayne: [00:02:52] You are a millennial, aren't you?
Wyatt: [00:02:54] Of course I'm a millennial.
Barna: [00:02:57] He wants everything for free and doesn't want to work.
Wyatt: [00:02:58] I am proud of it.
Wayne: [00:02:59] So when You talk to a baby boomer, we have we have different perspectives.
Wyatt: [00:03:02] Naturally, we do.
Barna: [00:03:03] Are you a baby boomer?
Wayne: [00:03:04] Yes. I'm that old.
Barna: [00:03:05] That old.
Wayne: [00:03:07] What are you X, Y R, Q?
Barna: [00:03:08] X, I guess. Sage knows better than I do.
Wyatt: [00:03:14] So we got one of each inside the conversation right now. Right. But you're right, generally speaking and I was, I was trying to work this into the last conversation with Roger too. But it's like the generation that follows generally disagrees with the generation that was their predecessor.
Wayne: [00:03:28] That's their job.
Wyatt: [00:03:29] Yeah, exactly right. I'm here to defy my parents because I don't want to listen.
Wayne: [00:03:33] Because they don't know anything.
Wyatt: [00:03:34] What could they know.
Wayne: [00:03:35] And may never know anything more.
Wyatt: [00:03:37] Right. But that's not the reality. Isn't that I like to oppose them because I disagree with them. I disagree with the fact that everything has remained the same. My, my, current landscape is not the same as theirs was or yours was when you were my age.
Wayne: [00:03:53] True.
Wyatt: [00:03:53] So I say same game, different board. And if we could figure out how to agree that we have a new set of challenges and it's not the same. So instead of educating me on a future we don't actually know, we find a way to work together, move forward.
Wayne: [00:04:07] Well said.
Wyatt: [00:04:08] Thank you.
Wayne: [00:04:09] For a millennial.
Wyatt: [00:04:10] For a millennial. And I'm not even looking at my cell phone. Well, we're having this conversation.
Wayne: [00:04:15] You haven't Googled seven things.
Wayne: [00:04:18] Well I did bring some information. I don't know if it's helpful. I like to have stuff in writing, of course.
Barna: [00:04:26] You like to prepare.
Wayne: [00:04:27] I try. I try. It's an old baby boomer thing.
Wyatt: [00:04:31] I bet you had to print everything off too.
Barna: [00:04:35] He had a secretary do it because he's rich.
Wayne: [00:04:38] Well I want to do my job to take down the trees right.
Wyatt: [00:04:41] Is that binder mahogany?
Wayne: [00:04:43] No.
Wyatt: [00:04:43] It's mahogany in color for sure.
Barna: [00:04:45] It's baby calf.
Wyatt: [00:04:47] This is veal I had last night.
Barna: [00:04:49] Like his shoes, which are probably exotic snake.
Wayne: [00:04:52] You aren't familiar with this term. It's Naugahyde. You're familiar with that material.
Wyatt: [00:04:58] You're right, I'm not.
Wayne: [00:04:58] Know you could build a house with that
Wyatt: [00:05:00] Naugahyde.
Barna: [00:05:02] Its, fake, it's plastic.
Wayne: [00:05:03] Absolutely plastic.
Wyatt: [00:05:05] If its from a boomer I know its plastic.
Wayne: [00:05:06] I know can not to say it's made out of old water bottles. I can't say that it'd be nice if I could know.
Wyatt: [00:05:12] It's definitely a new product that can't be recycled.
Wayne: [00:05:15] It's not recycled. It's not it's not upcycled.
Barna: [00:05:16] It's just it's just cycled.
Wayne: [00:05:18] It's a landfill disaster.
Barna: [00:05:20] It is even a name brand.
Wayne: [00:05:22] Oh, no, no. You have something that looks.
Barna: [00:05:24] I got my Day Runner here.
Wayne: [00:05:27] I remember Day Runners, yeah
Barna: [00:05:29] Leather
Wyatt: [00:05:30] Field book, recycled paper.
Wayne: [00:05:33] Oh, show off.
Barna: [00:05:34] Goodwill. Two dollars.
Wayne: [00:05:36] Oh OK. Beat that.
Wyatt: [00:05:37] Recycled paper got it for free.
Barna: [00:05:42] Damn it, millennials.
Wayne: [00:05:47] Would it work for siding on a house?
Wyatt: [00:05:48] This, no, but we're working on a solution for that. With all the plastic that you boomers have given us.
Wayne: [00:05:53] I'll tell you I'll donate all my old binder's if we could turn that into a house
Wyatt: [00:05:58] Just nail it onto the side.
Wayne: [00:05:59] Yes, I have seen that.
Barna: [00:06:01] I don't think I don't think planning and zoning will approve.
Wayne: [00:06:04] Probably wouldn't.
Wyatt: [00:06:05] But planning and Zoning is not a design review board. So they, we all have to understand what.
Barna: [00:06:08] Usually.
Wayne: [00:06:10] They are whatever they want to be. Yeah. Whatever they feel like doing that day.
Wyatt: [00:06:14] What mood am I in? This is how I'm going to be today. And you say you've experienced that.
Wayne: [00:06:20] Want to play a little guessing game for a moment.
Wyatt: [00:06:22] I would love to.
Wayne: [00:06:23] How many would love to active listings in the Canyon City zip code right now. How many homes?
Barna: [00:06:27] Just Canon City zip code?
Wayne: [00:06:28] Just Canon City. Zip Code
Barna: [00:06:30] 100.
Barna: [00:06:32] Nope
Wyatt: [00:06:33] Higher or Lower.
Wayne: [00:06:34] Oh, he's way high.
Wyatt: [00:06:35] Yeah, I was going to say.
Barna: [00:06:36] Six.
Wayne: [00:06:38] I was actually going to say I was going to say 19. But a little bit of me wants it to be twenty nine.
Wayne: [00:06:42] You're close, 24.
Wayne: [00:06:43] So how about Florence?
Wyatt: [00:06:46] Oh jeez. I'm going to go with eight residential houses.
Wayne: [00:06:50] Residential properties. Correct.
Barna: [00:06:52] 4.
Wayne: [00:06:52] 15.
Wyatt: [00:06:54] Nice.
Wayne: [00:06:55] And we'll give you one more shot. Penrose.
Wyatt: [00:06:57] Oh, I'm going to go with 14.
Wayne: [00:07:01] 5
Wayne: [00:07:02] Well, so we have an inventory problem.
Wyatt: [00:07:05] So yeah. We're low on inventory. Absolutely. And what does that do when you have a supply and a demand? How does that work?
Wayne: [00:07:11] Leads to multiple offers. It leads to some serious decision making for a seller. It also one of the things that most people would assume is that it's great to be a seller. No, it's just the perfect time.
Wyatt: [00:07:24] So it's a seller's market and.
Wayne: [00:07:26] Seller's market. However you sell and you take advantage of your equity and now you have a little a little stash. What do you do next?
Barna: [00:07:36] Now you're homeless.
Wayne: [00:07:37] You're homeless because there's not enough to choose from your cash prices, especially up north north of Fremont County. You better entertain a smaller community, something out east, something down south, something on the western slope. If you want to stay in Colorado.
Barna: [00:07:50] Kansas?
Wayne: [00:07:51] Kansas is a great option.
Barna: [00:07:53] Well, it's not even a small house because there's nothing on the market. So even if you want to downgrade, you're not going to you're going to lose money, probably. I'm thinking if you would downgrade square footage.
Wayne: [00:08:04] Or if you can if you can purchase for half of what you sold your home for then pocket the rest. You can still do that. You can sell at six hundred in the Springs and you can come down here for 3.
Barna: [00:08:17] Well the question is, if you already live here, can you sell for six hundred and buy a three or sell it four hundred and buy at 2?
Wayne: [00:08:23] More challenging, more difficult.
Barna: [00:08:23] I just, just wondering about that.
Wayne: [00:08:27] One of the reasons I mentioned that is because that's why you're seeing this migration south from Denver, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, even from Pueblo, coming here and putting all this pressure on the local market. So you're right, if you're a local buyer and you want to move laterally or you want to move up in the community or you want to downsize, you are in this pool of buyers that you didn't have to compete with two years ago.
Wyatt: [00:08:54] The buyers waters are pretty treacherous right now. And you were sharing something earlier that what did you say? If seventeen offers per home, that's that's dropped on the market.
Wayne: [00:09:05] It doesn't even have to be well located or in good condition. It's just available.
Wyatt: [00:09:09] And so now we're not even talking about who's advantage or disadvantage. It's literally that we don't have enough housing to support the population of people.
Wayne: [00:09:18] Absolutely true. And that's that's I think that's a fair statement for the entire state.
Wyatt: [00:09:24] Right. So how do we correct the inventory problem?
Wayne: [00:09:29] Make more.
Wyatt: [00:09:30] We have to build more. Do you think you've seen property values go down when someone has added a small living structure like an accessory dwelling unit to their existing parcel? Let's just say you have a 6000 square foot lot. You have a 2000 square foot house. This probably isn't too far outside the common lines, right? You have additional square footage on that lot that you could add an accessory dwelling unit to if you wanted to. Would that supplement some of the inventory issues?
Wayne: [00:10:02] It would probably create an attractive option for someone. I don't know that it fixes the housing problem because that's going to be a generational purchase. In other words, grandma is going in there or the millennial who never left in the first place.
Wyatt: [00:10:19] What are you trying to say?
Wayne: [00:10:20] I don't know.
Wyatt: [00:10:22] If my dad had an ADU in his yard in Minnesota, I'd still be here. It's a heck of a commute.
Barna: [00:10:30] But but if you had a house and an ADU, would he be down here?
Wyatt: [00:10:33] He might have to be.
Wayne: [00:10:34] There you go.
Barna: [00:10:35] Kicking and screaming.
Wyatt: [00:10:37] I don't know. I think after a week he'd be like, I'm going to go suntan. Or whatever.
Barna: [00:10:44] In the snow because it is still warmer than home.
Wyatt: [00:10:47] And I'd have to put a privacy fence up.
Wayne: [00:10:50] If that buyer decides to purchase something that already has an ADU,
Wyatt: [00:10:56] Is that a motivator at all?
Wayne: [00:10:58] It is because it becomes a rental income, if they're not putting a family member in there for, you know, the many next many years, they walk into a property where much of their mortgage, at least maybe half of their mortgage could be paid through this rental property. It does take care of a housing issue. It allows one or two more people to find a place to live.
Barna: [00:11:21] But the housing problem isn't just not enough houses on the market to buy or sell. Rentals too, right? So I talked to somebody that sold their house in Newlin Creek, I guess. And they want to rent something here in Fremont County, because if they tried, they ended up in the Springs and they found a house. They said it took them a while to find something for rent because about 20 some people would show up at the showing for the rental because like you can show up at this time, 20 people show up, most of them dressed in their best clothes. They're driving their best car with cash For the whole year, three thousand dollars a month for a house. And they would show with 36 grand cash to say, please rent to me because there's nothing else.
Wayne: [00:12:15] It almost feels like a cartel deal, doesn't it? Briefcase full of cash. I'm renting
Barna: [00:12:23] But its the only way you have a roof over your head.
Wayne: [00:12:23] Rent to me right now or the deal is off.
Wyatt: [00:12:23] You've seen this?
Wayne: [00:12:24] Yes. On a purchase. A new listing comes on the market. You will have a four day window in which to see the property. But those are 15 minute increments. And you'll you will you will hop in there as soon as you possibly can, as soon as that listing is triggered. And you won't get an appointment until the fourth day if you get one at all.
Wyatt: [00:12:47] So tell us a little bit about real quickly, because now that we've had a chance to warm up the mics and Sage is good on the on the production side of it. Right. Who the hell are you and what do you do?
Wayne: [00:12:56] Oh, who the hell are you.
Wyatt: [00:12:58] Instead of who is your daddy? What does he do or who are you and what do you do?
Barna: [00:13:01] Why are you here?
Wayne: [00:13:02] I kind of resent the question so long into the interview? Because I just I just wondered, actually.
Wyatt: [00:13:07] Exactly.
Barna: [00:13:07] We don't know what we're doing.
Wayne: [00:13:08] You have no idea who I am.
Wyatt: [00:13:09] You get in here, a guy.
Wayne: [00:13:12] Like we have some air time.
Barna: [00:13:13] We saw this guy walking down the street..
Wyatt: [00:13:16] Hes got a folder.
Barna: [00:13:16] and he had a cool binder.
Wayne: [00:13:18] Actually I just sold my house.
Barna: [00:13:21] He seemed old enough to know stuff.
Wayne: [00:13:21] Everything I have in my car,
Wyatt: [00:13:22] Cash rich, and house poor.
Wyatt: [00:13:23] And I'll be staying in my car until I get an appointment to see a rental.
Barna: [00:13:27] You can rent my office today. Today.
Wyatt: [00:13:31] If you got thirty six grand cash.
Barna: [00:13:33] Yeah. Bathroom is down the hall. No shower. Wet naps.
Wyatt: [00:13:42] Who are you and what do you do?
Wayne: [00:13:43] Well unfortunately for you too, I've known you both a while and.
Wyatt: [00:13:46] Not me as long.
Wayne: [00:13:47] He's proud of that. Yeah. My name is Wayne Jennings. I'm with Berkshire Hathaway Realtors in Florence. We also have an office in Colorado Springs.
Barna: [00:13:56] Hold on. That's that's one of those like start up real estate companies, right. The name is...haven't heard of it.
Wayne: [00:14:00] Yeah. It's like some kind of a Jimmy Buffett, you know, we get that a lot. We get that a lot. Is that the company that Jimmy Buffet owns. I love his songs.
Barna: [00:14:15] Jimmy Buffett Cousins started it.
Wayne: [00:14:17] It would be a very different company culture if.
Wyatt: [00:14:20] Jimmy Buffett owns a margarita company, ok? Not a housing
Wayne: [00:14:26] It's Warren. That guy.
Wyatt: [00:14:28] Yeah. And they're not related I don't believe.
Barna: [00:14:32] Who is Jimmy Warren?
Wayne: [00:14:32] I think I think Jimmy Buffett is actually Warren Buffett's millennial son.
Wyatt: [00:14:39] Yeah. Yeah. But he he did fine for himself too. He's a you know, he was a musician then he turned himself into a real big time capitalist, Not as big as the Oracle, but um.
Wayne: [00:14:51] But and the Oracle is in the same house he's lived in for 50 plus years and a very modest ranch home in Omaha.
Wyatt: [00:14:59] So anyway, you work in, You're a realtor. You're a broker. Correct. OK, and so you've seen the market develop over how many years? How many years?
Wayne: [00:15:08] 25
Wayne: [00:15:08] 25 years of this.
Barna: [00:15:10] What did you do before that?
Wayne: [00:15:12] Worked for a typical company. Media company.
Barna: [00:15:16] Yeah. What did you do there?
Wayne: [00:15:18] My wife and I worked in the newsroom at Channel Eleven, Colorado Springs. That was 25 years ago. OK, remember, this would be before cell phones.
Barna: [00:15:27] This was before Sage was born.
Wayne: [00:15:28] There was this Sage was born.
Wyatt: [00:15:29] There was a time before cell phones?
Wayne: [00:15:31] No, there was not. BCC, Before Cell Service, no BCS.
Wyatt: [00:15:40] Messenger pigeons were being fed well at the time.
Wayne: [00:15:44] Familiar with skywriting?
Barna: [00:15:47] Smoke signals from all the smoking because you're, you know.
Wayne: [00:15:51] Hieroglyphics
Wayne: [00:15:53] Mad Men era. How how was the whiskey for breakfast?
Wayne: [00:15:56] There were people who smoked in the news room. You had one of those one of those backdrops where it was a poster of the city skyline. But it's an open newsroom, kind of an interesting concept for the time, because typically they'd have you in some
Wyatt: [00:16:07] So progressive you millennials, you boomers are.
Wayne: [00:16:11] Don't call me names.
Wyatt: [00:16:12] I didn't mean to offend you.
Wayne: [00:16:15] But we had a gentleman who was the anchor there for 35 years and he insisted on donuts and a cigarette right behind everyone who's delivering the news. So he'd come in with a cigarette and a donut and nobody in the audience would wouldn't think twice about that. That's when we were smoking. Yeah, we not we but smoking people were allowed to smoke on an airplane. That's way before now you were born,
Wyatt: [00:16:40] But now you can't. I'd be offended.
Wayne: [00:16:45] Back on the housing track. Sorry about that. Where were we?
Wyatt: [00:16:48] That's so, so developing. You know, your your experience and your expertise inside of the real estate game and kind of where you fall in line with with homes that already exist, listing homes, helping people buy homes, those kind of things. What about development, how do you, where is a good place for you to kind of fall in line with with land development and how that goes on? Because we have a little outline on the board. It's not very clear because Barna has a lot of chicken scratch all over the place. My whiteboard is, nothing like that.
Wayne: [00:17:21] What would it be? More more organized. Oh, I see.
Barna: [00:17:25] Podcast, question mark, because we don't even know what podcast we are on.
Wayne: [00:17:27] I have cue cards you don't remember those either, kind of, cue cards, teleprompter.
Wyatt: [00:17:32] Well, you're the guy from the newsroom, we thought you were bringing it.
Wayne: [00:17:35] I didn't even realize that you had done that. That's really very nice of you.
Barna: [00:17:37] So you do have a lot of experience in front of, like a microphone or a camera. Was that your.
Wayne: [00:17:42] That was part of it.
Wyatt: [00:17:43] Development. Right. Where can you how does it work If you're going to sell? So on speculation, for example, can you sell a lot with with a house plan, do you have to have, you know, framing going up as a builder, going to going to be underway before you can do that thing? Can you sell it that way at all? How does it work?
Wayne: [00:18:02] Well, I'll give you a quick example. We just wrapped up the sale of our 11th new build just off the main drag in Florence, which is the last mile estates on your way to the river. That builder that I've worked with for more than 20 years just purchased 35 additional lots. In that same neighborhood. And he'll have to put in streets in this case.
Wyatt: [00:18:28] And so he's developing.
Wayne: [00:18:32] It's not often that you have a developer builder, the same person, those those two things. Typically a builder who just concentrates on building, will look for a developed lot that's ready to go and then he'll stick his floor plan on there. Up we go. We we had a tremendous amount of interest in those 11 homes. Didn't take long to get them under contract at any phase of construction. So foundation we had one that was didn't even have a foundation and they were ready to rock and roll. But that that floor plan was developed by the builder over time. And it was really kind of a basic popular one level, two bed, two bath, sixteen hundred square feet, three car garage and that's 299. Now that same house, a little bit bigger on these thirty five additional lots because of the cost of construction. We're going to be at 375 and it'll still be a bargain for the person coming in from outside the area. Now it doesn't help with a local, I mean it could, but it doesn't help locally what we, we're bringing more people in but that's not, the mission is to create more housing,
Wyatt: [00:19:43] Satisfy the housing that people need here already.
Wayne: [00:19:45] And that's and that's really challenging.
Barna: [00:19:47] And what's that need? What's the dollar amount that people can locally afford for rent or to purchase a home?
Wayne: [00:19:55] Well, you remember these days, it wasn't that long ago, four years ago when we opened our office on Main Street, you could hop into the multiple listing service at any given moment and there might be eight to ten properties each day, every day under a hundred thousand.
Wyatt: [00:20:10] I say 80 to 120 was was a decent. You were treading water there. I mean, you you were going to find something that was going to be safe.
Wayne: [00:20:18] And now you're hard pressed to find something under one seventy five.
Wyatt: [00:20:22] Right. And has the quality I mean it could be the same house.
Wayne: [00:20:26] Absolutely would not much work done to it.
Barna: [00:20:29] Or none.
Wayne: [00:20:30] Or in worse condition.
Wyatt: [00:20:31] Exactly. Yeah. Because that was like four more years of wear and tear on it.
Wayne: [00:20:33] So I think the sweet spot on price here is anything under two hundred. Rates are still so low then do you buy at that number and you're still paying less than you would on your monthly rent.
Barna: [00:20:47] Is that possible though. So based on your builder. The property, land cost, development costs and building costs. Is a house today possible under two hundred thousand dollars?
Wayne: [00:21:02] It is not. And that's why you're seeing
Barna: [00:21:04] For how many square feet. So that's that's the other thing too. So the minimum square footage here in Florence is 856?
Wyatt: [00:21:10] I want to say eight fifty six or something like that.
Barna: [00:21:12] Something like that. Right. So let's say nine hundred.
Wayne: [00:21:15] What's the cost per square foot?
Barna: [00:21:18] Can you build a 900 square foot house for under two hundred thousand dollars.
Wayne: [00:21:22] A traditional builder cannot. That's why what you two are doing.
Wyatt: [00:21:26] Well, of course it's a loaded Question, but. But did they have do you know you talked to the guy, you worked with them for twenty years. Does he go I'm building for two hundred bucks a square foot, a building for.
Wayne: [00:21:36] Yeah well we did that to ninety nine was, was twenty bucks a square foot and that set a record and in the beginning we weren't sure the market would support it regardless of size. If it has two bedrooms and a bath or even a one one people are looking for at the right price. Prefab construction, manufactured homes, everything that is out there that's possible to build is is a this is a great place to do all that.
Barna: [00:22:04] So we just talked about this with Roger. I went to Poncha Springs. They have like the prefab home you can buy them there. And I think the reseller not direct or anything, but I priced in eleven hundred square foot one with an added on porch and kind of like a cool and it was like kind of mid-century modern looking like this will be great. And how much is this? Price came back with everything. Three hundred and twenty one thousand dollars.
Wayne: [00:22:35] For the structure?
Barna: [00:22:36] Eleven hundred square foot.
Wayne: [00:22:37] To put that structure on a truck and bring it here.
Barna: [00:22:40] That plus they had estimated. They had appliances that everything.
Wayne: [00:22:46] Oh, appliances. You really need those?
Barna: [00:22:52] I asked, about that and it's included because you get the white fridge instead of the stainless steel. Like. No, because nobody has white fridges anymore its all stainless steel.
Wayne: [00:23:00] That's true.
Barna: [00:23:02] But that included a lot of estimated cost for sewer but even even so, that that include estimated cost for all your development, which the numbers weren't even completely right.
Wayne: [00:23:14] There was a land cost in there too?
Wyatt: [00:23:15] No.
Barna: [00:23:17] But that was like an estimate, estimate, estimate for the foundation, engineering the foundation, sewer, septic.
Wayne: [00:23:24] Come to us with your dirt and we'll help you put a 300000 dollar modular home..
Barna: [00:23:29] You gotta put all your own stuff on there. We'll just bring it and drop it on there. You still got to find all your own people.
Wayne: [00:23:34] Contractors has to do all that. They'll drop it off for 300.
Barna: [00:23:39] Yeah. The actual unit price was like 155. I might have it with me somewhere but it was like one fifty five for the base unit and then it was like oh porch extra this extra windows extra.
Wayne: [00:23:53] Roof extra, doors and windows extra
Barna: [00:23:59] 321 was the the bottom price there on that form.
Wyatt: [00:24:03] And then you got to add a foundation, land and your taps and everything else. It's a 400,000 dollar modular house.
Wayne: [00:24:10] Didn't you drive away thinking that that's an unsuccessful business model.
Barna: [00:24:13] They're booked out 30 weeks.
Wyatt: [00:24:16] Three zero weeks.
Wayne: [00:24:18] For delivery.
Barna: [00:24:18] So they're basically sold out. They're sold out today. And you got to wait 30 weeks to, 31 weeks, to get your house.
Wayne: [00:24:27] If you can't buy a resale, say, in Colorado Springs, for example, you want to go new. You've probably heard this.
Wyatt: [00:24:33] Oh, no. These were new.
Wayne: [00:24:35] No, I know. But we're talking about wait wait time. Yeah. So in Colorado Springs, you will put your name on a list. And you will wait one year at least to visit the development to the new filing to choose your lot. So you're hoping that there's something to choose from in 12 months? And then there'll be another eight, nine, 10, maybe a year of construction time. So what why would you do that? But people are doing it.
Barna: [00:25:12] This sounds to me a lot like Socialism. So in socialist Hungary if you wanted a car, you got on a waiting list, you had a choice of two colors, maybe three.
Wyatt: [00:25:27] You're welcome.
Barna: [00:25:28] You had basically three models, couple colors each. So you had maybe 10 choices of a car. You had to be like part of the Communist Party to even be first in line, to be able to get on the list to get the car.
Wyatt: [00:25:43] It sounds like vaccinations.
Barna: [00:25:43] They need to put all your money down and then a year later, you might get your car. So what are we doing wrong or right to cause this?
Wayne: [00:25:54] It sounds very familiar, doesn't it? Yeah.
Barna: [00:25:57] So why are we in 1980s and 1990s Socialist Europe in America or in Colorado, because it's not everywhere, in Colorado today?
Wayne: [00:26:08] Well, I think Colorado and I was looking at some stats out of Boise, Idaho, their market is off the charts. Crazy if we think it's crazy here.
Wyatt: [00:26:18] It's a new tech center in Boise. There's a there was a huge influx of tech companies that were starting to develop there because the quality of living was so, so high. I guess they just bombed the whole city.
Wayne: [00:26:29] Well, that much closer to California one of the reasons and you take a market that was already sizzling and you throw in a pandemic, we're very wealthy people with a lot of assets are tired of where they're living and they're just going to go buy something somewhere. They don't really care what it costs. They're going to get their family out of there and they may never return. That was a second home buyer for Colorado five years ago.
Barna: [00:26:59] Yeah, they just they're just pulling up stakes.
Wayne: [00:27:00] Like I can work from anywhere. Google tells me I should work from home. You know, Google's now. The state's looking at penalizing people who live and work somewhere else in a lower tax state.
Wyatt: [00:27:09] Why?
Barna: [00:27:10] What?
Wayne: [00:27:10] Because they don't want to lose residents, tax payers.
Wyatt: [00:27:14] Oh, I see. So so they're going to keep their tax base there
Wayne: [00:27:16] Because Google says live where you want, you go to New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho they want to penalize you.
Wyatt: [00:27:20] So they think it's a good idea to, they're going to they're going to put a gun to your head for moving their tax base.
Wayne: [00:27:27] Boot you out of the state tax.
Wyatt: [00:27:28] Do we have completely come unraveled as what we were supposed to do.
Barna: [00:27:32] So OK, so California is moving here and we're not building enough homes?
Wayne: [00:27:36] Not just Californians.
Barna: [00:27:37] We're just not building homes fast enough?
Wayne: [00:27:39] And they are the ones who are and I hate to say this because I'm a former Californian, but, I hate to admit it, but full disclosure.
Wyatt: [00:27:47] After all these days, we've known each other.
Wayne: [00:27:50] It's almost been forty years. I don't think that makes me a native of Colorado, but pretty close.
Wyatt: [00:27:57] I'm not really from here either. Neither is Barna.
Barna: [00:27:59] I am not even from this country.
Wayne: [00:28:07] Who at the table came the furthest?
Barna: [00:28:08] I am here to take everybody's real estate.
Wyatt: [00:28:09] I am here for your land. Sounds like war.
Barna: [00:28:17] One acre at a time man.
Wyatt: [00:28:21] Quarter acrereally that little thing.
Barna: [00:28:21] I bought 10.
Wayne: [00:28:22] One container at a time.
Wyatt: [00:28:25] Anyway. You came from California.
Wayne: [00:28:28] Yeah. OK. Sorry, I mentioned that you get stuck on that, aren't you? Whatever I say that doesn't even count. Well I was born there, but I don't even like to go back. It's crazy land. But you take the California migration and you just multiply that by every other big city in the country. And, and, you know, we used to think people in Colorado Springs moving there years ago got the town is just a little small. It's not a lot going on
Wyatt: [00:29:02] In Colorado Springs. Yeah. Now it's way out-grown it's.
Wayne: [00:29:06] And now I get calls from people. I can't take it anymore. They're of retirement age. Get me out of the traffic. And so I need to find them a shipping container home, apparently.
Wyatt: [00:29:22] It would work. They're going to end up in one anyway,
Wayne: [00:29:23] They're Going to downsize. Well, I'll show you downsizing. Bring them down to see you guys.
Wyatt: [00:29:28] Yeah. So but that actually brings me to a good question. I think, so in real estate, you can you don't sell tiny houses because they're on wheels. You don't sell just an ADU. You can sell something as long as it's on a foundation.
Wayne: [00:29:41] We can sell anything as long as it comes with land, if you want to look at it that way. So if something already has a mobile home, manufactured home, a tiny home, a makeshift cabin, a lean-to, a tough shed, we we certainly handle all that.
Barna: [00:29:59] As long as it's attached or on land.
Wayne: [00:30:02] Even if it's not, it's still considered personal property go with land or not.
Wyatt: [00:30:08] Ok, and that's between the buyer and seller.
Wayne: [00:30:09] Correct. Correct. So but that that could be something that easily marketed.
Wyatt: [00:30:13] So that's what constitutes you know, what you can sell is when someone comes and said, I have I have Earth that I'd like to sell, you can list commercial industrial, residential.
Wayne: [00:30:21] And the only difference would be a condo where it's just air space. But that would be a typical listing as well.
Wyatt: [00:30:27] Can you unpack how that works a little bit with a condo? Say you sell airspace because you're not selling the ground below, but you're selling the walls around it?
Wayne: [00:30:37] Correct.
Barna: [00:30:37] Studs in, right?
Wayne: [00:30:39] And they're also purchasing whatever common areas there are because they'll be instant members of the HOA. Right. And paying dues toward all of the common ground maintenance. So if there's a park bench and a little patch of grass, they are one sixtieth owner of that.
Wyatt: [00:30:54] OK and so they pay on maintenance for that and those kind of things for their HOA.
Wayne: [00:30:57] And one of the things that Denver's trying to do to keep up with demand and they're just going vertical. Which is what you'd expect. But those prices are insane up there for, well, a condo about the size of your office, Barna. It's a very generous office, but it would make maybe a maybe a tight space for a home. But that's what you get for about half a million.
Barna: [00:31:19] I shouldn't have sold all my condos five years ago. I'd be a multi-millionaire right now.
Wayne: [00:31:24] We need to have a whole another afternoon of shouldda, couldda, wouldda.
Wyatt: [00:31:27] Oh, yeah, no. If you guys really want to play.
Wayne: [00:31:30] That would be depressing though.
Wyatt: [00:31:32] Only if we start drinking. Well we're going to need it.
Barna: [00:31:35] You guys haven't started drinking?
Wyatt: [00:31:36] Yeah, we're going to need it..
Barna: [00:31:42] Follow us, like us, share, subscribe. Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook or wherever you consume your podcasts.