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Barna and Wyatt continue their series on breaking down the code and how to tread those waters. What do you need to be aware of? How do you change things? What do you search for? and more!

Show Notes


Wyatt: [00:00:00] If you can build it here, you can build it anywhere.

Barna: [00:00:03] 50 percent of the land doesn't have sewer service, right?

Wyatt: [00:00:06] OK, if I build one on wheels, you know, what are my hurdles? If I build one without wheels? What are my hurdles? What's the local code requirement going to drive me towards?

Barna: [00:00:14] Could be sixty years old and you want to move your parents into an ADU, an accessory dwelling unit, right? I mean, they have to go over the same hurdles as a 20 year old that doesn't want to have the lifestyle, I need, you know, two thousand square feet and a and a huge loan to deal with for the rest of my life.

Wyatt: [00:00:32] You want a different lifestyle. It's not a tiny house podcast.

Barna: [00:00:37] A lot of this stuff is just sizzle. Right? So you go you go online like, oh, man, I need help with shipping containers. Right. Like, how do I figure this out or whatever. So it's not only that you see 15 different options like, oh yeah, we're putting in a window. It doesn't actually have the detail, doesn't actually have all the information you need. Does it tell you why? Oh look, we put in 15 windows. It doesn't go into like, oh wait, is that window approved. Is that, what country are you in? Because one of the one of the videos is about insulation, like, oh, we're putting this insulation in...

Wyatt: [00:01:12] And fucking and it's like blanket.

Barna: [00:01:14] its 2 millimeters, right. Like yeah, what's the R value of that, like one? I mean best case scenario, three. That's not going to fly here. I mean my cousin, the architect, he designed this backyard shed tiny house and he wants to bring them to America and he's been in magazines and everything's like, cool. Is that an approved structure? Is that engineered? What's our value on that? Do you actually want people to live there? No, it's a foundation like you know...

Wyatt: [00:01:46] They're playhouses because because you can't live in the things. It sucks. It just it's click bait bullshit. When someone's like you can put a window in a shipping container for one hundred dollars. No, you cannot. I don't care what anybody tells you on this planet in 2020. No, you can't, buttercup. It doesn't work like that. You have to calculate your time.

Barna: [00:02:07] Wait, hold on. So you're telling me I can't build a house for four thousand dollars?

Wyatt: [00:02:12] Yeah, I'm telling you that. Unless you do what I did with pallets.

Barna: [00:02:16] Wait Facebook has been lying to me this whole time?

Wyatt: [00:02:16] Facebook is bullshit.

Barna: [00:02:20] There's there's a movie about that, right? Like, yeah, we just saw that too.

Wyatt: [00:02:24] We just saw that too. And so I mean and and with that let's start it. Right. I said what? I said, no, you can't build a house for that amount of money because you have to calculate time.

Barna: [00:02:33] Not in America,

Wyatt: [00:02:34] Not in the United States today. Not if you're going. You have to pay, you have to pay wages, you have to do stuff and you have to meet code if you're going to do this in a permanent structure. This is where we delineate from tiny houses because stuff on wheels has no jurisdiction. Right. You're a you're a rogue agent, just willy-nilly moving around, living in parks and stuff, which awesome, by the way. But this this is where.

Barna: [00:02:57] Can I do that?

Wyatt: [00:02:58] Yeah. You can do whatever the fuck you want. But this is where the rubber no longer meets the road. Right. You're stuck. You're on a foundation, you got infrastructure now. And so code, you know, as it says in the board unpacked. Right.

Barna: [00:03:13] We are planning and zoning first thing, right. No, it needs to be on a foundation, whether we're talking about ADUs. We're talking about tiny houses. We're talking about watchman's quarters. Right. It's like where's your foundation? That that's question number one. You don't have one. Cool. There's an RV park down the street and that's your option.

Wyatt: [00:03:30] That's your option. And most tiny houses or most RV parks aren't really shining, if you will, on tiny houses. Right. Because.

Barna: [00:03:37] Some are.

Wyatt: [00:03:38] Some are. OK, and that's the other thing. You have to you have to to separate sharks from the guppies. Right. Like where is the exception? Not the rule. Right. Like, so you hear this like, well, tiny house communities in Denver, a tiny house, communities in San Fran. Well, that's really, really great. They're paying more than, you know, rent in a lot of instances for those of us living in a little less populated area, maybe. But also those were exceptions because those populated areas found that this was like one of the only viable solutions. There are still multiple solutions.

Barna: [00:04:07] Last winter in Florida, tiny houses in all RV parks on the coast.

Wyatt: [00:04:12] So they exist and you have to find them. And at this point, they're rare. So I don't even know if getting in is probably a thing, but if that's the direction that you choose to take, that's still super good. That doesn't mean we can't offer you, you know, good advice on having high, efficient, installations of windows and things in your in your tiny house because.

Barna: [00:04:30] Or a solar system added.

Wyatt: [00:04:31] Exactly. Because you're going to save energy like like that is the tide moving up. And everybody has to understand that, that what we are not talking about is a tiny house. And that's why we go. I said what I said. Right. This is not a tiny house podcast. This is a podcast for a little smaller structure, essentially. Right. And housing. And now, code unpacked. Where are we headed with code? Because now that we're not an RV, we don't have wheels. You know, we actually have some oversight when it comes to that. Residential code, commercial code, industrial code, that's before we talk about downtown districts and there are many different distinctions. So you have to know, like we'd said in the last podcast, what your parcel is. Now inside a residential code.

Barna: [00:05:14] Or somebody else's parcel is or you want to build or family owns or whatever.

Wyatt: [00:05:18] That's him saying he owns the land I don't own on it.

Barna: [00:05:20] Well, yeah, that is what I'm saying. Or your parents, you know, for your kids or whoever. If you want to build an ADU, that's a that's a whatever, not a tiny house. Right. But a small structure that you want to build on that lot. Well, what zoning are you in and does it allow that?

Wyatt: [00:05:36] Right. So inside of your residential code, you're going to find single family multifamily depending on, again, where you are. You might find different classifications for different areas that have different rules and different things to allow. You have to start with knowing where you're talking about doing your project on and what it is zoned as, current state, before you worry about change and shit. Right now you got residential. We also have commercial. Commercial is traditionally where you're going to see business districts, things that are a little more forward on the commerce side of, you know, the way that our systems work. Right. So you're not living there. You might have a hotel there. You might have somewhere where you have, you know, some some transient sort of things going on, more in commercial.

Barna: [00:06:17] But you also have commercial districts, especially in older towns like Florence, where we are, where it's residential above commercial. So typically it's downtown business district or some other unique zoning for that. But it does allow for a combination of commercial and residential.

Wyatt: [00:06:36] That's mixed use. Right. So we're talking about like he has got to keep in mind, you know, 100 years ago, right, you had a shop owner that lived on top of his hardware stores, candy store, whatever, below him right now. That's a little that's like that mixed use, commercial, residential, where on the main level you can't live, but you have to live on the second story or above because your main level is meant for business.

Barna: [00:06:57] Well, and the best part of that is your design is literally that, it's that, just different. Yeah. It's like, OK, I got my shop, I got my storage, I've got my whatever I want underneath. It's a shipping container and I live above it. So it's an existing model. And yet people are still losing their minds for some reason.

Wyatt: [00:07:14] Yep.

Barna: [00:07:15] Because it's, because it's, different enough or they're just not thinking about it. But it exists. So we're not reinventing, not a reinvention, anything. Its just new.

Wyatt: [00:07:24] We took a shipping container and put a small house on top of it so that the shipping container could be used for business, storage. Using it for, I use it for one thing, right? I use it for tools and other shit like that. Tools and toys. Right. Hunting equipment can go in there. If you're a ranch person, you can put tack in there, you can put hay, in there. If you got a CrossFit gym, you want to put it in there, you can do that in there. You got an Etsy shop there. Back to the business concept of that.

Barna: [00:07:49] You got a bike shop,

Wyatt: [00:07:50] You got a bike shop, whatever that is. Right. So so it's a live work environment,

Barna: [00:07:56] Which is super popular term right now for the downtown areas like, oh, it's a live work environment. You go downtown Denver, every other condo is that.

Wyatt: [00:08:04] Dude, you're not burning fuel and you're not doing this, you're not going anywhere. Everything you need is close. So no. Right, 100 percent same concept. And then and to further kind of move down that that code and what restrictions live inside of what little housing. Right. You got industrial, light industrial, heavy industrial. This is things like, shit, you can have everything from a from a nuclear power plant to truss factory to a munitions company or whatever is going to live inside of industrial. You're making more industrial products. Yeah.

Barna: [00:08:36] Light industrial is, well here anyway, I think the definition is that you're indoors and not making a lot of noise.

Wyatt: [00:08:43] Yep.

Barna: [00:08:43] There's heavy industrial, which is.

Wyatt: [00:08:45] Equipment.

Barna: [00:08:46] Equipment outside, a lot of noise.

Wyatt: [00:08:48] Gravel pit, dude.

Barna: [00:08:49] Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:08:50] Right.

Barna: [00:08:50] Right across the street.

Wyatt: [00:08:52] Crushing concrete which. Yeah. I mean you know, it's things that protect people against things like air pollution, noise pollution, light pollution, what we call is pollution is really just like the cost of doing business. And so cities segregate these things from one another. So there's a there's a buffer zone from one to the next.

Barna: [00:09:10] Yeah. And that's, you know, going back to playing old school SIM City. When you're designing that city, you don't put your nuclear power plant that you need for your your whatever, your neighborhood. You don't put that next to the residential you have..

Wyatt: [00:09:26] You put that somewhere else.

Barna: [00:09:26] A gadiant. The gradient goes from residential to the nuclear power plant.

Wyatt: [00:09:31] Think of it like a like a target, right where the center could be your central business district, your first white circle outside of that be your your residential district. You go to the next one you got R2 or R3. You go further out. You're getting further and further towards these industrial sort of lots. And that's a very simplistic way. And it's not that cut and dried, but it's a way to understand that, like what buffers to what zone.

Barna: [00:09:53] But I also want to bring up that zoning has also failed everybody.

Wyatt: [00:09:57] Oh, yeah.

Barna: [00:09:57] Right. So in the 1940s, 50s, everybody's like, oh, man, some some some industrialist is going to come to small town America, we're going to build the next, you know, factory here that produces something. And and they're going to have all this valuable industrial land. You can tell that by the price of industrial land is typically more expensive. Industrial land is also taxed at a higher rate because you're producing something instead of residential. So technically, the value of that land should be higher. This is an outdated view, 100 percent, manufacturing is in China. Manufacturing is in other countries. Yeah, we want to bring it back, but that will take 50 years, just like it took to get rid of. So right now what people are doing is they're converting that industrial use into residential. This is happening on all the major cities. So there's precedent for that. Columbus, Ohio downtown..

Wyatt: [00:10:57] Dude, cities are sprawling. We were just in Sioux Falls and we were up in Fargo. The cities are sprawling with residential.

Barna: [00:11:03] They're sprawling out. But at the same time, they're also then urban sprawl made downtowns abandoned, right, and neglected.

Wyatt: [00:11:11] Yeah.

Barna: [00:11:11] Then about everybody goes back 20 years ago, 30 years ago now, everybody went back. So all the industrial areas were rezoned.

Wyatt: [00:11:20] Yeah.

Barna: [00:11:20] Now they're condos.

Wyatt: [00:11:21] That's super sexy downtown lofts with the fucking awesome elevators.

Barna: [00:11:24] Three hundred and thirty thousand dollar studio loft. It was,

Wyatt: [00:11:28] It was full of pigeon shit and busted windows 30 years ago, I promise you.

Barna: [00:11:32] And but we're doing the same exact thing here in Florence. So 50 percent or actually it's a little bit less than 50 percent of the land in Florence is tied up with industrial zoning. The only thing that is accomplished is having an area that is abandoned.

Wyatt: [00:11:48] Yeah, no, it's there's no business. Those businesses didn't come and that land got bitched up because it was only supposed to be for industrial stuff that never came to fruition. So now it can't be used for residential because it's inside of how that distinction works.

Barna: [00:12:02] And that's that's exactly what we're talking about here, is like what is what is your long term plan if your long term plan is to provide housing for retired people, but then you need to provide housing for people that support the retired people. You need to provide support for workers. So there's a lot of housing you need to provide or do you want to be the I don't want to pick on these companies because they're great local companies and we use them. But if your goal is to have the most gravel pits in Colorado, that can be your goal.

Wyatt: [00:12:36] Yeah.

Barna: [00:12:36] Then you turn that that business here. We've have a concrete plant, drywall plant we've got we've got concrete companies.

Wyatt: [00:12:45] And we have...

Barna: [00:12:46] That's fine.

Wyatt: [00:12:46] ...we have a population large enough that supports what our industry is to. Right. So, you know, master planning and these kind of things are I think they're all well and good. But oftentimes what drives the master plan isn't really houses. We never got asked about that.

Barna: [00:13:01] It's hopes and dreams. Right? Right. Our hope is industry will come here and it will spur like economic development will happen because we have all this land available for industrial. When your town is, you know, X number of square miles and fifty percent of that is open land where you're still waiting after 50, 60, 70 years to for somebody to come, it's time to make that change.

Wyatt: [00:13:28] Big time.

Barna: [00:13:29] And that is the change that somebody has to fuel.

Wyatt: [00:13:31] And here's a here's a big portion of that. Right. Like in hopes of GM, whoever. might come in through dropping a plant, building it up. Their questioning is going to be, well, who is going to work at our factory, right? Yeah. And how much are we paying people that work in our factory? What can they afford and what is available for them to afford? Right. So if you're going to look at this trickle down of like actual accurate line of questioning. Who's going to work in the factory to keep this thing going? Where are they going to live? And can they afford to live here and do that? And the answer today in our current situation is absolutely not, right, because there's no housing. It's not because and it is a little bit unaffordable, obviously. But the real answer is that there's no housing. Right. So we have a housing shortage is the crisis.

Barna: [00:14:18] And that's that prevents that's everybody that prevents everything. So the largest tourist attraction in the county, I talked to them and they're like, well, I we wanted to hire an extra ten people.

Wyatt: [00:14:32] No place to put them.

Barna: [00:14:33] No place to put them anywhere close. So, OK, we got to put them further away. And now they got to drive every day?

Wyatt: [00:14:40] Not only that,

Barna: [00:14:41] They are driving what, an hour?

Wyatt: [00:14:43] What appeals to them at that dollar amount to to do that when they can get that job for that dollar amount an hour away for one four two. You're losing tax revenue, you're losing you're losing too much. And that person that's on that portion of the totem pole for what they're making and money for that job, it's not worth it to be in that area. It's a beautiful area. It could be whatever you want it to be, right. But if they can't afford to live and work close, then there's really no point. And so, I think, I think we've we've we've hit that horse. Right. Like, we've gone like here's a lot of the motivating factors to why this project that we're working on is near and dear to our hearts. But moving away from the industrial specifically conversation and the trickle down that we've experienced thus far and the lack thereof of logic to understand this moves us into something a little lighter. Let's go towards building code, because now we understand that there are different code distinctions that we have to understand for what we're building. You got something like this?

Barna: [00:15:40] It's boring,

Wyatt: [00:15:41] Its not boring.

Barna: [00:15:42] So if if you want to tune out now.

Wyatt: [00:15:44] No, no, no. Here's the deal.

Barna: [00:15:46] I'm actually taking a nap.

Wyatt: [00:15:46] We're going to make this quick then, because we're probably I mean, we're trying to keep our podcast to a limited time so that we're not banging you up too bad. Let's talk real fast then. So we got residential. We got commercial, we got industrial. Everybody understands that is the top of the funnel. Right. As we move towards the bottom of the funnel for what your project is, you have to figure out if you're going to have to live inside of the residential code, commercial code, industrial code. From there you go, single family, multifamily, business, light industrial, heavy industrial as you kind of narrow down. And when you figure that out, you figure out, let's just say is a good example. You have the building code that you're going to live inside of the IRC. International Residential Code, right inside of that book has almost everything that you're going to need to know from span calculations to footers approved construction methods. Right. So if you're trying to live inside the box and, you know, not build a adobe mud hut, which is totally fine, if that's what you're into, that will be in this book. This will be stick framing this will be brick. It's to be, you know, approved construction methods, if you will. Right. So that's where you're going. First, I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you know, off the cuff a bunch of the code, because this is the same as asking... Asking a builder to go off the cuff or building is the same question. And you're going to get from a lawyer when you can. I you know, can I do this? We heard this recently in the lawyers. Like, let me get back to you on that. So you double check it with the book before you answer everything. Right. Next energy code. Now, this is really important to everybody. Like I said, if you're going to keep it on wheels, are you going to take it off wheels and put it on permanent? We believe in energy efficiency being a target that almost everybody needs to be looking at. And that's your windows, your wall insulation, how efficiency your furnace runs, how efficiency your cooling system runs, and what kind of power you're going to need inside of that as well. So if you're going to do a solar set up or or what you're going to be looking for. That all lives inside of that. And even inside of that, they they certain places allow, you know, things to be recycled like water usage and those kind of things, too. So you'll find systems in there in the IECC book, which is way smaller than the IRC. But also, you know, it's just good stuff to look at. And the last thing that I have to say about about code, this is a moving target. Right? City officials decide which ones adopted Canyon City, which is a neighboring town, is on 2006, Florence is on 2009. There's there's actually tiny house code that's going to be inside of twenty eighteen. But you just.

Barna: [00:18:20] Also code for shipping containers now, right?

Wyatt: [00:18:23] Yeah. And that's coming up and coming out. And so the thing that you have to keep in mind is that it doesn't matter what's the closest to the year. It's a matter of what has been adopted by your city officials. So it's twenty twenty and we are still on 2009 code in Florence. Right. So you have to to figure out which book you're going to live inside of so that you know, you know, what rules, what box your stuff has to fit into. And so like I said, I'm not going to go through here and go, yeah dude, you got to have R20 in the walls and R38 in the ceilings R30 in the floors, which is all real and true. But like I'm not..

Barna: [00:18:55] It's true. I not going to tell you but I'll tell you anyway.

Wyatt: [00:18:58] But like that's an example. Right. So if you're like, well how much insulation do I need in my house? You have to go to the IRC that's been adopted in your in your jurisdiction if you're in the city.

Barna: [00:19:08] What zoning are you in? What are you building? Are you building a hotel or building a house or building a whatever.

Wyatt: [00:19:13] He's got, he got a hint in there.

Barna: [00:19:15] We are dripping out the.

Wyatt: [00:19:19] Yeah.

Barna: [00:19:20] The trick.

Wyatt: [00:19:20] It's leaching, we are leeching.

Barna: [00:19:22] It's like the leechfield we are getting installed soon. Hopefully.

Wyatt: [00:19:25] Oh yeah. Yeah. We're leaching out some some tips and some thoughts on things to sort of work inside the code. We're going to give you some of that stuff. But for right now, for today, it's like understand the differences in these in these respective codes. Right. And know that they exist and, you know, hit pause at this point. I mean, like, shit, man, you know, what am I doing? What are we doing if it's you and a significant other business partner or, you know, just you, you know, living off the grid or whatever, which we got plenty of options and ideas for that stuff, too. But you're still going to have to. What your land use is and what box you have to fit inside of,

Barna: [00:20:01] But you can change a box,

Wyatt: [00:20:03] But you can change box.

Barna: [00:20:03] So that's that's my whole point. But that's a longer game.

Wyatt: [00:20:07] It's a long game. It's a long game. So, you know, like right now we're looking at first reading of new ordinance, second reading, and that's after goes through planning and zoning or whatever. So so you're looking at you're looking at months, months to change something. Now, a lot of code also has variances. The option for variances, but that, you got to take that to typically planning and zoning or planning or zoning or there's BOZA. I don't know what that is. Board of Zoning Adjustment. But there's a lot of places or a lot of check marks you got to you got to go through. Right, to get all this stuff done. But it's all possible. So let's go back to like the mobile home park that I've got that could have been rezoned.

Barna: [00:20:53] It would have been, yeah, it's not the zoning they want there, because right now it's agricultural 2. But it's grandfathered in because somebody put all these mobile home parks there a long time ago. So now, if you are your grandfather, did you make any changes you trigger, basically, you basically trigger some kind of a zoning change that will be required.

Wyatt: [00:21:16] Let's not assume everybody understands even what grandfathering means. Right. Real quick, grandfathering is. A this is your informal education. This is your sidebar tip. When someone says grandfathering means it's allowed because it's already there. Right. Kind of like your grandfather changed oil in his driveway and dump the fucking oil onto the gravel. Well, he did that. You can't do that anymore because there are new rules or whatever. So the oil that's already now in the ground, you don't have to dig up because he already put it there.

Barna: [00:21:44] Did you can't even wash your car anymore?

Wyatt: [00:21:46] Sure. Right. Yeah.

Barna: [00:21:47] You need a storm water permit to wash your car if it drains into the street.

Wyatt: [00:21:53] Yeah, exactly. So that's one of those things. A lot of times it's used for window egress is probably the best example inside of housing specifically. This window is too small and doesn't meet the current code requirement. But if it's already there and it's not been affected, it's grandfathered and therefore it is approved. Right. It's existing. That's what grandfathering means. And so just so that everybody who maybe doesn't know like a lot about building yet or it's just getting their feet wet or trying to figure out like the common vernacular and the jargon that we use on a job site. That's the word I just used is used a lot. So just get that one in. Grandfathering is an important thing to do to know what that what that means. Otherwise, you're going to get caught, like not knowing what someone is talking about.

Barna: [00:22:38] Well, so that's also that's also what frustrates me, you and a lot of other people is where you go while they're doing this, like while they're grandfathered in. So hold on. So people that are new coming with money or wanting to build something or wanting to come to the community, you're held to the highest current standard or everybody else is held to whatever standard existed at the time that structure was built. What I personally don't like is that a lot of the current code is trying to achieve something that is, that is, the opposite of the character of the place where you move to or the the place that you like. Sure. So you like Florence, small town or other towns, Canon City, whatever. There's a look and a feel, and that's why people move there. It's like, oh, I like the wide streets...

Wyatt: [00:23:33] the old downtowns

Barna: [00:23:35] I like the downtown,

Wyatt: [00:23:36] I like a brick.

Barna: [00:23:36] And I like the big trees, I like the whatever. You know, that's what I like, I like the different type of houses. Well, guess what, none of that's allowed now, right. Yeah. Well it's too small. It's, it's too whatever. Too close to the lot line. It's too close to the curb. Your oh your sidewalk is not the right. Whatever are you doesn't comply with this, that, or whatever else. So now the code has changed to the point where everything is supposed to be like some major city suburb. Well and that's a code. But I'm sorry, no fence.

Wyatt: [00:24:08] You brought up you brought up such a huge, huge point. Just because you see that your neighbor has something does not mean you can build an exact exact replica because it's already in your neighborhood either. There are setback requirements there. So like some of these old towns that we live in. Right, the setbacks have changed where there used to be like fucking five feet, like zero. Right. So like you see houses that you could never walk in between. You can't do that in most places anymore because of like your minimum set back from your front lot it's like here is twenty five feet. Right. And your side.

Barna: [00:24:42] Yeah in industrial I know twenty five feet.

Wyatt: [00:24:43] Right. So and your side lot that backs or fifteen or ten or twenty five. Again that's that's up to you to check with your local stuff to know. Because as soon as you build a structure in the place, let's just say it's a permanent structure and as a place it can't be. You know what they're going to do, they're going to make you take it down. Or move it somehow. Yeah, so that's that's something that you like, you have to know what's at risk here, they're not just going to go as is first time, fuck it. Like he's all right. He's an all right kid. You know, no big deal. They're not gonna do that. They're going to go like, well, you your responsibility, too, right? So so before you before you do it. And that was a good point that we did with the prototype housing. We didn't stick it in anything permanently because we always said worse comes to worse. We can take it down and move it.

Barna: [00:25:30] We'lll move it.

Wyatt: [00:25:30] Yeah. Like like if I got to pull my hands out of my pockets and go, like we're we're rollin' because someone's going to see a concept like this and like it. OK. Like the risk factor for us in that regard specifically wasn't really there. It was like, OK, we can you know, we didn't marry anything at that particular point. So the cautionary tales from the idiots with hammers. Right. Just make sure that you're looking into some of this stuff beforehand so that you're armed with the right stuff because people will try you on it. And if you if you look at them like, you know, you got nothing going on, it's not going to go well. If you can speak to the code, if you can if you can find out your information, if you can prove in the math, as they say, how all this stuff works, you're cool,

Barna: [00:26:15] But real quick. So barrier to entry is zero, right? So it's not like you got to pay to go to planning and zoning meeting. It's not like there's a locked door you got to get past. Anyway, in Colorado, it's open meeting laws.

Wyatt: [00:26:31] Yeah.

Barna: [00:26:31] So if it's federal or it's it's government funded meeting or in a government building, whatever, you have access to that. Unless it's it was an executive session, we were there doing something that requires, you know, litigation or.

Wyatt: [00:26:47] Some level of privacy.

Barna: [00:26:49] That's something that's not quite.

Wyatt: [00:26:50] But that's not really where you get hurt anyway.

Barna: [00:26:52] You need to go to city council. You need to go to planning and zoning. You go to housing, whatever is available at your city, you go to city hall and you go and ask to talk to the planning director or you go talk to the city manager. You go talk to anybody. They're there for you.

Wyatt: [00:27:12] They work for you. That is kind of their point. Some of them might not let you know that, but. But that's up to them, really. And so you don't have to know. You don't have to know shit from Shinola. I like like some of the guys I know say, like you walk in and say, when is the next city meeting? And if you and if you don't if you haven't had a chance or if you're like really curious how things have gone over the last however long in history, you can request the meeting minutes and read what was what was said. Some places will have a recording so you can actually learn some of the backlog of the discussions up until you're going to participate yourself.

Barna: [00:27:48] Yeah, and this is all typically on the city's website. It's on the county's website. And so a lot of this stuff has has to be transparent. So it's there, it's for you, we'll add some links to our local stuff and maybe some advice on how to find that if you're...

Wyatt: [00:28:03] Yeah.

Barna: [00:28:04] Googling or whatever else you are doing.

Wyatt: [00:28:05] If you are hitting the Gogglebox for sure. And so, yeah, a lot of this guys revolves around your own willingness to become involved and participate. And I always like to say this. You have to be active in your own rescue. Right. You have to ask the questions. You have to work for it. Nobody is going to hand you any of this shit on a silver platter because everybody's doing their own thing. Except for us. I guess. Here's here's where we're at. Here's what we're working towards in our local area. And, you know, in the future, not too far out in the future, I think we're going to share with some of the some of the personal projects stuff that we've had a chance to kind of move forward with and how how that's happened. We need to show you some success and what we've seen and how we've worked and what we've learned from our local officials here in the near near future, too. So that's what you're going to look forward to moving on. And then Barna is going to do the sign-off thing. And then I'm just going to remind everybody that we said what we said. We meant it, all of it. Right.

Barna: [00:29:00] That's your new tagline.

Wyatt: [00:29:01] I love it. I said what I said.

Barna: [00:29:02] I think I'm just going to say that if you don't like something, change it.

Wyatt: [00:29:04] Yeah, well, you can have that one. I like it. I think that's a good. We got to figure out who's Robin, you know, who's Batman yet. But whatever. And then, yeah. Do the, do the thing.

Barna: [00:29:16] Follow us, like us, share and subscribe. Follow on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook or wherever you consume your podcasts.